Effectiveness of fibre wadded cartridges at distance

[Vince Green]

4 minutes ago, yickdaz said:

yes i agree  he only fires one shot at the target, do it 5 times and you will get different results every time how can you judge consistency with 1 shot a stationary target hes  a very good game and clay shot dave carrie and pulls some awesome birds down in his vids but in the pattern tests he fires one shot at a dvd and if 2 or 3 pellets hit it he says I,m happy with that, that  will kill a pheasant and it will but I would  like see him fire 10 shots and see the results 

+1

[yickdaz]

6 hours ago, Ultrastu said:

That vid makes me laugh .

3 pellet holes in a dvd at 55 yds .and he thinks thats gonna kill a pheasant  ? Nah not a chance .

There were some huge gaps in that card where that dvd wouldnt have been touched at all .he needs to reduce the range to 40 yds max and make it more meaningful 

 

you only need 1 pellet in the right spot to kill a pheasant or any bird  so 3 in the right spots will kill it no trouble, but its putting them there time and time again is the problem at that range  so I agree with to an extent, you say theres holes in the pattern there will be but look at the size of a pheasant one of the pellets could of struck it in the head or  neck or broke a wing as well as hitting its body  

[yickdaz]

1 hour ago, Ultrastu said:

There are a lot of people on here that really cant range find at all .

I know i can . I have shooting silverware to prove it .

But ive said enough on this topic .

Im done .

 

mate theres a lot of  people on here who have a lot of practical experience and 30 40 50 years of it so they know what they are talking about 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

I bet a few others have some silverware too!

 

[yickdaz]

14 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

I bet a few others have some silverware too!

 

brilliant 

Edited October 19, 2018 by yickdaz

[TIGHTCHOKE]

I think this thread demonstrates yet again, that there is a wealth of experience on Pigeon Watch, but that as always there are number crunchers and pseudo scientists who can tell you what should be happening and there are other experienced people who get out and shoot stuff.

Knowing what your gun, choke and shell can do is a major part of the set up, the computer in your head being able to rapidly process all the available information and get you to pull the trigger at the right time so that the pattern arrives on target and kills it is paramount.

 

Experience is everything, pattern testing at realistic distances is part of that experience. Pick a shell, choose your choke and get out and shoot stuff.

 

 

N.B. I could probably find some silverware in the loft or garage if I could be bothered to look!

Edited October 20, 2018 by TIGHTCHOKE
Syntax.

[Hamster]

If game made a little audible screech every time it was struck with just 1 pellet at 60+ yards this business of "high" birds would have never taken off to begin with. 

[PPP]

Having shot, beaten and picked up with  in a number of teams, in reality it’s not purely the height of the birds that’s the problem but people shooting at birds that are too good for them and outside of their skill set, I also beleive the greater distance the greater the chances of a clean miss.

There are some excellent shots in this country who will pull down high birds at no worse a ratio than a poor team on normal birds (ignoring pillow chasers at sub 25yrds)

Everyone should take responsibility for their own actions and not rely on maths to try to criticise others, this puts shooting in a slippery slope.

Bizarely there isn’t the angry rhetoric against low pillowcased birds rendering them unfit for consumption or people turning up at an average shoot and clipping everything as they can’t shoot...

Perhaps each day should start off with a few clays togauge competency of the team? You can’t pitch up with a decent stalker and go straight out after deer unless he’s seen that you can shoot, why should birds be different?

Although, it might hurt the industry because a noticeable proportion of people would be sent home.

Shoot birds that you can ethically and cleanly kill and that give you pleasure, save the criticism for the antis please..

 

[wymberley]

4 hours ago, PPP said:

Having shot, beaten and picked up with  in a number of teams, in reality it’s not purely the height of the birds that’s the problem but people shooting at birds that are too good for them and outside of their skill set, I also beleive the greater distance the greater the chances of a clean miss.

There are some excellent shots in this country who will pull down high birds at no worse a ratio than a poor team on normal birds (ignoring pillow chasers at sub 25yrds)

Everyone should take responsibility for their own actions and not rely on maths to try to criticise others, this puts shooting in a slippery slope.

Bizarely there isn’t the angry rhetoric against low pillowcased birds rendering them unfit for consumption or people turning up at an average shoot and clipping everything as they can’t shoot...

Perhaps each day should start off with a few clays togauge competency of the team? You can’t pitch up with a decent stalker and go straight out after deer unless he’s seen that you can shoot, why should birds be different?

Although, it might hurt the industry because a noticeable proportion of people would be sent home.

Shoot birds that you can ethically and cleanly kill and that give you pleasure, save the criticism for the antis please..

 

Disagree with this bit. If there's a situation which merits either/or criticism/correction then this should be acted upon. Failure to do so will not only eventually lead to it being accepted as the norm but sooner or later be utilised by those very antis with which to attack us and for which we have no justifiable defence.

Edit: Come to think of it, is this not where we came in and exactly what the OP was getting at, perhaps?

Edited October 20, 2018 by wymberley

[AYA117]

1 hour ago, wymberley said:

Edit: Come to think of it, is this not where we came in and exactly what the OP was getting at, perhaps?

To keep it  on topic.

Fiocchi  JK6 38g feltro and RC HPF3 36g are both very good felt loads for very long range shooting, oh and yes I have used both and found them to be very good.

Edited October 20, 2018 by AYA117

[Fen tiger]

On 18/10/2018 at 07:41, Smokersmith said:

From patterning No. 4 (36g) at 60 yards, I'll tell you that there's no guarantee you'll actually hit a coke can when in the middle of the pattern.

When the OP does his pattern testing he'll see that pattern is the limiting factor, not penetration.

The challenges on 70 yard pheasants are putting the pattern in the right place, then having a cartridge/choke combo that can deliver an 'effective' pattern .. which will involve luck as it's rare in normal game shells.

Spectacular shots can and do occur, but not without luck in most cases.

This sums it up very well.

[Guest cookoff013]

Where can I buy this luck? Is it available in tinned format ?

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Just now, cookoff013 said:

Where can I buy this luck? Is it available in tinned format ?

I believe it is similar to this stuff;

 

[PPP]

1 minute ago, cookoff013 said:

Where can I buy this luck? Is it available in tinned format ?

Not quite, it it is very expensive, the harder that you practice the more you refine your equipment to give yourself every chance and the more hard work and effort you put in the ‘luckier’ you get..

[Fen tiger]

Whats clearly missing from this thread is pattern pictures and details, theory maths are important but when you physically apply them to longer shotgun ranges pattern shows it true worth. 

[Old farrier]

2 hours ago, cookoff013 said:

Where can I buy this luck? Is it available in tinned format ?

It’s available 

however very expensive 

in reality it comes from years of studying the quarry and many hours of practice 

infact the more I practice the luckier I get 😄

[Salopian]

I had a very good day today , shot a number of Pheasants well in excess of 40yds with Hull Imperial Game 30 gram 5s. on one drive this afternoon shot 12 for 20 cartridges , so I doubt it was luck or stray pellets.

[Walker570]

9 minutes ago, Salopian said:

I had a very good day today , shot a number of Pheasants well in excess of 40yds with Hull Imperial Game 30 gram 5s. on one drive this afternoon shot 12 for 20 cartridges , so I doubt it was luck or stray pellets.

Don't for one moment doubt you but how did you measure that 'excess of 40yrds' ?  The majority of folks I meet ....me included cannot judge 40yrds exactly or to within a yard or two on the ground, judging distance in the air is pure guess work.  Having said that 12 for 20 is pretty good shooting in anyones opinion.

[Smokersmith]

2 hours ago, Salopian said:

I had a very good day today , shot a number of Pheasants well in excess of 40yds with Hull Imperial Game 30 gram 5s. on one drive this afternoon shot 12 for 20 cartridges , so I doubt it was luck or stray pellets.

Pleased you had a good day, but now confused about your original question!!

Anyone on here can tell you that 30g of 5’s is a good load for pheasants at that range.... I get between 130 and 150 pellets in a 30” circle at 45 yards. Perfect.

So where did the over 70 business come from 🤔

[motty]

2 hours ago, Walker570 said:

Don't for one moment doubt you but how did you measure that 'excess of 40yrds' ?  The majority of folks I meet ....me included cannot judge 40yrds exactly or to within a yard or two on the ground, judging distance in the air is pure guess work.  Having said that 12 for 20 is pretty good shooting in anyones opinion.

One way to get a good idea is to look at exact life size silhouettes at various ranges. I have done this with goose silhouettes and pattern tested on them, too.

[Salopian]

I have been involved with range judging as part of the BASC thing since Dr John Harridine introduced it years ago . Regularly pattern cartridges, and often when walking my dogs I judge a distance and then pace it out , even been known to measure it with a surveyors tape ( Wife thinks I'm mad).

I started this thread because of comments made by an 'expert' , I wanted to seek others views and opinions.

As soon as I get some time I will be patterning 4s & 5s in various loads at distances in excess of 40 yards to confirm to myself at what distance I will have a useable pattern with what cartridge . 

I appreciate any sensible comments and input . I am only interested in fibre or wool wadded cartridge performance as I think it is time to set an example by not polluting the planet anymore than necessary .

For those of you interested in this subject , may I recommend that you get a copy of 'Some Shooting Questions Answered ' by John Lennie published in 2010 by John Roberts Design & Print www johnroberts-designprint.co.uk.

I have lost John Lennie's contact details but feel sure Ivor Beavis at Checkley Game Farm / Shoot near Nantwich will have Mr. Lennie's contact details.

[JJsDad]

1 hour ago, Salopian said:

'Some Shooting Questions Answered ' by John Lennie published in 2010

The link below is an interesting article by the same author who has obviously carried out some practical testing up to 80 yrds. In summary, he is suggesting that using a fair degree of choke and 5 or 4 shot, a killing pattern can be achieved out to 55 yrds with some degree of consistency. But beyond that, the pattern starts to fail rapidly, although striking energy remains high enough to bring down a bird (if struck in a vital area) making the 70 and 80 yrd shot a lucky fluke rather than something that can be consistently achieved. This testing was carried out using fibre wads.

 

https://www.shootinguk.co.uk/answers/how-not-to-waste-a-shot-91293

 

Edited October 25, 2018 by JJsDad

[Diss4111]

On 19/10/2018 at 21:15, Ultrastu said:

There are a lot of people on here that really cant range find at all .

I know i can . I have shooting silverware to prove it .

But ive said enough on this topic .

Im done .

 

I have shelves of it too, but not one for guessing distance. Where do you ebnter those competitions?

[Old farrier]

A good guide to gauge of distance 

as you walk out to your peg pace the distance between you and the next gun 

this is a good guide for the less experienced shot 

note most pegs are too close together rarely more than 40 yards 

transfer the distance between the pegs forward and up the same amount and you can get a good judgment on distance 

40 yards up is the height of a electric pylon so if you’re stood back a bit and shooting out in front at birds flying over the top wires your distance is in the 60 yards region 

 

[Ultrastu]

5 hours ago, Diss4111 said:

I have shelves of it too, but not one for guessing distance. Where do you ebnter those competitions?

Silver wear