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I really don’t get it


yates
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9 minutes ago, yates said:

Deeply saddened to see over two hundred pheasants buried after being shot on a local shoot. Game dealers don’t want them as they have no value. Sorry chaps I really don’t get this. What type of person kills something just for the sake of killing.

Many people pay money to shoot game, and may take away a brace or two, or none. They paid to shoot and so the choice is theirs. It isn’t their fault nor their responsibility that the shoot doesn’t have an outlet for those birds, that is the responsibility of the shoot.

Ethical it isn’t, it’s business. I am convinced that there are outlets for all birds shot, it just requires a bit of creative thinking.

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10 minutes ago, Ultrastu said:

Do you eat rats , squirrels and crows ? 

I know its not the same but. 

Just asking .

 

 

Rats, no

Squirrels, not yet

Crows, not yet (although never shot a crow as it happens) - there was a good video posted on here a while ago showing someone cooking and eating crow.

I'd shoot any of the above as they cause problems but pheasants are bred for killing and to just bury them does seem like an awful waste. Trophy hunting does not sit well with me

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5 minutes ago, Scully said:

Many people pay money to shoot game, and may take away a brace or two, or none. They paid to shoot and so the choice is theirs. It isn’t their fault nor their responsibility that the shoot doesn’t have an outlet for those birds, that is the responsibility of the shoot.

Ethical it isn’t, it’s business. I am convinced that there are outlets for all birds shot, it just requires a bit of creative thinking.

I agree it’s not about ethics and people pay but to waste a creature without a purpose to use its flesh for food is totally unacceptable. Maybe shoots who don’t have an outlet to put the birds into the food chain should be prevented from doing so. 

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A pheasant is a far cry from a crow. A game keeper I know gives them to a game dealer. He gets about 20p for a partridge.  That's better than burying them, especially as he has "sold" the bird to the gun already. 

He has them prepared (oven ready) and gives a brace to the guns. On occasion I but them for a £1 a bird (cost price of having them prepared)  oven ready. It's cheap tasty food.  Either kept whole or breasted and legged in the freezer. 

He goes through a lot of birds and the dealer takes all he can get so clearly there is a market for them.

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What I find hard to understand when I hear about shoots dumping birds like this is the finger pointing at the guns about not taking a brace or more! Where are the pickers up, beaters, neighbours or associates? I do not pay to shoot pheasant and only go beating if a mate is a bit stuck but I get GIVEN plenty of birds through the season because the shoots where my mate picks up would rather GIVE birds away than dump them. Not all shoots do this and I think that some would rather dump than give away. :hmm:

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27 minutes ago, Scully said:

Many people pay money to shoot game, and may take away a brace or two, or none. They paid to shoot and so the choice is theirs. It isn’t their fault nor their responsibility that the shoot doesn’t have an outlet for those birds, that is the responsibility of the shoot.

Ethical it isn’t, it’s business. I am convinced that there are outlets for all birds shot, it just requires a bit of creative thinking.

This, although most conscientious guns ask about birds going to food chain, however if shoots lie....

I think a big part of the problem is overseas teams who don’t give a damn, fly in shoot several back to back 1,000 bird days and **** off...

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It is not difficult to arrange with the game dealer for the estimated number of birds to be shot to be pre -sold at an agreed price long before the shooting takes place, a keeper friend of mine organises above at a fixed price as soon as the estate release the shooting dates, the only time there is a problem is when the numbers shot are more than 10% above the pre -estimate for the day, the extras go to the game dealer free.

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27 minutes ago, yates said:

I agree it’s not about ethics and people pay but to waste a creature without a purpose to use its flesh for food is totally unacceptable. Maybe shoots who don’t have an outlet to put the birds into the food chain should be prevented from doing so. 

Not everyone shoots to eat, and certainly not in this country as we have no tradition of hunting nor do we need to shoot to eat. We shoot for entertainment, for fun, for leisure, for ‘sport’,  because we enjoy it. No one shoots who doesn’t enjoy it. 

I’ve no doubt there will come a time when the big commercial shoots are forced to be seen to be ethical, but don’t be too quick to condemn; if the big shoots go the rest of us won’t be far behind.

Can I ask where you found the source of your post? 

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There is a probelm but it is really quite a recent problem, atleast where i am and has surprised me how quickly prices have dropped.

 

Shooting really does need to get its finger out to sort this problem out.

As far as i cn see the only way its going to happen is do away with game dealers, as far as i'm corncerned there fairly responsible for the problem, keeping prices high/stable for the finished product  which keeps demand low as so expensive while slashing the prices there buying it at. In many cases now they charge to take game away now

Don't have a problem with game prices being high when dealers paying a decent rate, but when getting most of the birds for free they could easily afford to drop ial prices by a lot.

Bothham had the right idea last year setting up a sort of charity to process birds and cook them into to ready meals and give themout to food banks charity. Thats the way it needs to go if they can't find a market Never heard how it gt on since?

But bigger commercial shoots need to group together into co operatives and process the birds themselves cutting the dealers out so they can sell the birds at tiny profit %'s to form/imncrease a market for them and they have already been paid to shot them.

 

Shooting can't really continue the way it is the now if bids are not being used, BUT it is not a problem u can solve overnight.

 

I also don't think threads sensationalising or publicising  it helps either, ur doing the anti's/tabloids work for them.

These sorts of rumours have been about for years even when game still had some value so obviously made up or faked. I wil admit ther eis a problem now but there is plenty on internet without giving them more ammo.

 

I would imagine that shoot and most other shoots will be happy to give away/sell cheaply as much game as possible so if any out there want game there will never be a better chance to fill a cheast freezer with quality meat for nothing. If u don't know ur local keepers/shoots have a look on GoP and contact a few about taking there birds.

Most willtake ur hands off.

It also is a great time to get neighbours friends work mates into game, hand them out to as many folk as possible

 

Butch it is now becomming more difficult to find a dealer to take birds, and more so for smaller shoots, as to few birds for desiel/time and often facilities not up to standards either (covered game cart, chiller etc)

Even i'm thinking about buying another chest freezer and startig making game burgers and suasages, stilll got a chest freezer i never quite emptoed from last year too.

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1 hour ago, yates said:

Deeply saddened to see over two hundred pheasants buried after being shot on a local shoot. Game dealers don’t want them as they have no value. Sorry chaps I really don’t get this. What type of person kills something just for the sake of killing.

So you never ‘bit’ to my first post, so how about this. Search moi and look what I have started doing. 

 

200 birds dumped. Why didn’t you do your bit, take them all, kick off with the keeper and the guns and say “this is not on”.

 

Breast them out, vac pack them and you’ll find there is a market beyond what you could ever imagine.  

 

Last weekend i done 15 pheasants, it wasn’t any where near enough to meet demand and I only told a few friends.   

 

What did I want back?  The cost of the vac pac bags.....

 

But you took time to post on this forum. 

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Estate local to me now prepares their shot game themselves and sell as many as they can prepare. It is just that the 'modern day' human has not got a clue about plucking or skinning a bird in the feather or is squeemish about doing it, so would rather eat some garbage ready prepared.   I have just purchased 20 packs at £3 a pack...40 brace of partridge, oven ready from this estate for my freezer and always accept at least a brace and will take more if offered whenever I shoot and these will likely go into game pies.  It really is up to estates to make some effort but of course it is easier and cheaper to dig a hole after the estate has pocketed the shooting fees. 

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32 minutes ago, scotslad said:

There is a probelm but it is really quite a recent problem, atleast where i am and has surprised me how quickly prices have dropped.

 

Shooting really does need to get its finger out to sort this problem out.

As far as i cn see the only way its going to happen is do away with game dealers, as far as i'm corncerned there fairly responsible for the problem, keeping prices high/stable for the finished product  which keeps demand low as so expensive while slashing the prices there buying it at. In many cases now they charge to take game away now

Don't have a problem with game prices being high when dealers paying a decent rate, but when getting most of the birds for free they could easily afford to drop ial prices by a lot.

Bothham had the right idea last year setting up a sort of charity to process birds and cook them into to ready meals and give themout to food banks charity. Thats the way it needs to go if they can't find a market Never heard how it gt on since?

But bigger commercial shoots need to group together into co operatives and process the birds themselves cutting the dealers out so they can sell the birds at tiny profit %'s to form/imncrease a market for them and they have already been paid to shot them.

 

Shooting can't really continue the way it is the now if bids are not being used, BUT it is not a problem u can solve overnight.

 

I also don't think threads sensationalising or publicising  it helps either, ur doing the anti's/tabloids work for them.

These sorts of rumours have been about for years even when game still had some value so obviously made up or faked. I wil admit ther eis a problem now but there is plenty on internet without giving them more ammo.

 

I would imagine that shoot and most other shoots will be happy to give away/sell cheaply as much game as possible so if any out there want game there will never be a better chance to fill a cheast freezer with quality meat for nothing. If u don't know ur local keepers/shoots have a look on GoP and contact a few about taking there birds.

Most willtake ur hands off.

It also is a great time to get neighbours friends work mates into game, hand them out to as many folk as possible

 

Butch it is now becomming more difficult to find a dealer to take birds, and more so for smaller shoots, as to few birds for desiel/time and often facilities not up to standards either (covered game cart, chiller etc)

Even i'm thinking about buying another chest freezer and startig making game burgers and suasages, stilll got a chest freezer i never quite emptoed from last year too.

hell of a post  couldn't agree more some gamedealers are getting way to greedy and pricing themselves out of the market and they can actually charge shoots to take birds off there hands its  ridiculous

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This is about the shoot getting off its back side and sorting out a source for is birds. A major estate I pick up on sends them off no cost to the game dealer. Others pay the game dealer twenty or thirty pence per bird and this can be factored in to cost. Other shoots have formed a cooperative to process game and have found a market for everything it produces. I find it difficult to accept there is not a market for free meat, you just have to make the effort to source it.

This is not about guns it is about estates. Admittedly guns can ask the question and deal only with those estates who act ethically although it is probably naive to think this will happen very often. Either way it is up to the estate to take action and not blame guns. The guns have done their bit paying for a day and putting their money into the rural economy.

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9 hours ago, markm said:

So you never ‘bit’ to my first post, so how about this. Search moi and look what I have started doing. 

 

200 birds dumped. Why didn’t you do your bit, take them all, kick off with the keeper and the guns and say “this is not on”.

 

Breast them out, vac pack them and you’ll find there is a market beyond what you could ever imagine.  

 

Last weekend i done 15 pheasants, it wasn’t any where near enough to meet demand and I only told a few friends.   

 

What did I want back?  The cost of the vac pac bags.....

 

But you took time to post on this forum. 

I was on my way home from work yesterday and called in at local butcher. He showed me the red deer he recently prepared and several sika still in their ‘ coats’ waiting for their turn. The red deer he had collected from the local estate, it was at that time he witnessed the burying of the birds. He offered to take some but was declined. I would have taken birds if I had the opportunity as I have never refused in the past. 

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We’ve been here before towards the end of last season if I recall. And I’m sure I did some fag packet maths with the end result being somebody making a decent profit.

The general public as a whole don’t know/want/like game. I work with people who don’t know what a partridge is never mind how to cook one. Game has two attached stigmas 1 it’s tastes very strong because it’s hung forever and a day. 2 it’s a preserve of the hoypoloy rich folk.

My argument has always been the same chop it up, stick it in cheap and cheerful pies for people on the breadline - the same people that were buying the Tesco horse meat pies - and they will sell. These people are on a budget and can’t afford to be fussy. When the horse meat was discovered instead of incinerating it they had reduced it to 25p a lasagne they would have sold. They could also produce a higher end product vacuum packed breasts etc in smaller quantities  

The carcasses can be minced into raw dog food and the feathers and guts can go to compost. 

There’s not going to be a lot wasted. If I had the money and the connections to set this up I really would because I think it would make me rich enough that I could go shooting all the time!

 

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The other reason birds could be being buried if they were the badly shot/unfit for hunam consumption, some game dealers even have a minimum size limit (really only affects ur mich or kanas X type strains)

 

So it could be perfectly normal for a shoot to dispose off those birds, which has always happened anyway. And 200 odd isn't a masssive ammount if is shooting regular or u have no idea how long he had been collecting them to save digging tiny holes all the time.

 

I think Ben is spot on,  even if the price was slashed to £1 a bird i think the market would still be smalliiish (althou a lot bigger than it is now) but stick it in ready meals that u just blitz in the microwave is way forward.

 

Must admit i nomally just use the breasts nowadays and just subsitute them in for chicken or marinate att just BBQ the breasts, couldnae get easier cooking.

 

If u put where u are lks it might help?

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