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fox red lab mistaken for fox

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Hi I have a fox red lab and will be picking up soon on my local syndicate, one of the rules are no ground game. That doesn't stop being concerned that a gun might get carried away and see a darting fox red lab as a fox and take a shot, anyone else concerned as me? 

Thanks in advance 

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If  you have such little faith in the guns find another shoot, not being funny with you, but guns are in use and rules should be laid down no hazy edges, I state no ground game full stop the rifle will deal with foxes, guns will not be given 2nd chance. If you are not happy with shoot captains talk walk away or just pick up after end of drive whistle.

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If ur picking up will u not be behind the guns??

Not that it should be an issue anyway but if it was would be more with a beating line dog running out of the wood.

 

I generally don't work my dogs during the drive and i'm usually far enough back the guns rarely even see ur dog if u do put it on a runner.

Call me old fashioned but don't like to see dogs picking up during the drive, just creates problems/training issues with the dogs too

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3 hours ago, scotslad said:

If ur picking up will u not be behind the guns??

Not that it should be an issue anyway but if it was would be more with a beating line dog running out of the wood.

 

I generally don't work my dogs during the drive and i'm usually far enough back the guns rarely even see ur dog if u do put it on a runner.

Call me old fashioned but don't like to see dogs picking up during the drive, just creates problems/training issues with the dogs too

As above and also if your not happy with the set up then walk.  I have only had to do that once and that was after being peppered twice by a gun ... a Lord would you believe .... when I was stood 100yrds behind him !!!!  I walked and told the keeper why.

I also do not like dogs picking up during the drive unless there is an obvious runner.  I'm a bit old fashioned as well and do not personally pick my shot game at a drives end, even if it is within yards of me.  Pickers up are there mainly for the joy of seeing their dogs work..... the payment is peanuts in comparison. When I had a dog I always waited for a picker up to ask if I would like my dog to pick a few and I would say thank you.  Just good old fashioned manners in my book.  Like marking your birds and seeking out a picker up and passing the information. Not just putting gun in sleave and leaving the field.

Edited by Walker570

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U raise a good point about guns with dogs, ideally i like to stand as far back when picking and work my way in so u get a better view and gives guns/dogs plenty of time, but if i am in a closer position and i see a gun with a dog i'll either move behind another gun or keep my dogs in until he's finished working his own dog.

The guns normally really appreciate it.

 

Mind once on the grouse was an unusual drive where they sometimes knock the return over a valley more similar to an upland partridge drive, i was standing right inbetween the guns in the line.

Gun beside me shot an absolute cracking bird, his dog never ran in either (or more importantly neither did any of mine, think i had 4/5 and usually no leads), after drive i kept mine all sitting beside me while he got his dog to fetch it and he came up and shook my hand and thanked me for letting his dog fetch it. Think it was the only bird shot anywhere near me

I know if i was in his shoes would just be a cracking way to finish the day, cracking shot that ur dog retriieves well to hand, sort of thin i'd remember for a long time (i can still mind it now from years ago and never done anything!).

Just wee bits of etiquitte like that cost nothing and makes some guns day.

Now many shoots i go to dogs are runing all throu the drive

 

If a bird is dead round the guns feet its not going anywhere, if ur dogs are runing about its really hard to watch ur dogs, take/dispatch game of another dog and try to watch for pricked birds too. U just can't do it.

I've also seen me sitting dogs up in middle of an area of easy picked birds (say 20+ close together) and just picking the brds by hand, helps steady them up a wee bit too and saves sickening them

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I have a lad beating with two red cockers So when starting the day I make a point of letting all the guns know this and show them the dogs.Both guns and beater appreciate this.

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Maybe dangerous but with a bell on at least you can find it 

lot of blood trailing dogs have bells on the collars 

lot depends on the ground you work your dogs on 

having a working dog that looks like a Fox I can sympathise with the op 

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On 04/11/2018 at 12:16, scotslad said:

U raise a good point about guns with dogs, ideally i like to stand as far back when picking and work my way in so u get a better view and gives guns/dogs plenty of time, but if i am in a closer position and i see a gun with a dog i'll either move behind another gun or keep my dogs in until he's finished working his own dog.

The guns normally really appreciate it.

 

Mind once on the grouse was an unusual drive where they sometimes knock the return over a valley more similar to an upland partridge drive, i was standing right inbetween the guns in the line.

Gun beside me shot an absolute cracking bird, his dog never ran in either (or more importantly neither did any of mine, think i had 4/5 and usually no leads), after drive i kept mine all sitting beside me while he got his dog to fetch it and he came up and shook my hand and thanked me for letting his dog fetch it. Think it was the only bird shot anywhere near me

I know if i was in his shoes would just be a cracking way to finish the day, cracking shot that ur dog retriieves well to hand, sort of thin i'd remember for a long time (i can still mind it now from years ago and never done anything!).

Just wee bits of etiquitte like that cost nothing and makes some guns day.

Now many shoots i go to dogs are runing all throu the drive

 

If a bird is dead round the guns feet its not going anywhere, if ur dogs are runing about its really hard to watch ur dogs, take/dispatch game of another dog and try to watch for pricked birds too. U just can't do it.

I've also seen me sitting dogs up in middle of an area of easy picked birds (say 20+ close together) and just picking the brds by hand, helps steady them up a wee bit too and saves sickening them

In solid agreement. Works both ways.  Guns don't just assume they are also pickers up and pickers up ask guns if they would like their dog to pick some ....never a problem behind me as there isn't a lot to pick anyway.    I ran a walk and stand shoot for over 30yrs and when we finished a drive , guns with dogs would pick up, BUT if I had a bird down I could see, as you say I would sit my dogs and walk out and pick the bird, just to instil in them that every bird that hits the deck is not theirs.  It works.

 

Etiquette is not a word that is well know these days I'm afraid.

Edited by Walker570

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Its dangerous for a working dog to wear a collar.

Better than having the dog shot, never known a fox to have a collar with a bell on, even a noobie to the sport should be able to suss that out...:whistling:

Old Farrier's post sums it up.

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Anybody know of a dog that was shot after being mistaken for a fox on a shoot?  I certainly have not.

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Yep know someone who shot a golden cocker on a shoot after thinking it was a fox as old Charlie used to always run the ditch and though some brambles.

heard a noise saw a flash of colour  and the rest is history.

he is still paying for the vet fees I believe.

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3 minutes ago, archi said:

Yep know someone who shot a golden cocker on a shoot after thinking it was a fox as old Charlie used to always run the ditch and though some brambles.

heard a noise saw a flash of colour  and the rest is history.

he is still paying for the vet fees I believe.

I hope that he lost his certs.

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22 hours ago, Bazooka Joe said:

Better than having the dog shot, never known a fox to have a collar with a bell on, even a noobie to the sport should be able to suss that out...:whistling:

Old Farrier's post sums it up.

 

But also has a fox ever ran into the drive past a line of guns?? (Which it would need to for a picking up dog to be shot) I doubt it with all the shooting and beaters making a noise/smells etc, plus the dog would be running accross open ground.

The chances of a working dog hanging itself are far higherr than being shot esp as a picking up dog

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21 hours ago, Newbie to this said:

I hope that he lost his certs.

 

19 hours ago, Seadog1408 said:

+1, sounds like a dangerous idiot.

 

Why???  I would imagine/hope it was a walked up/rough day so shooting ground game wouldn't be unusual.

Yes shooting the dog is far from ideal in certain circumstances can see how it would happen he hasn't fully idetified his quarry which is breaking a golden rule.

 

Sadly accidents happen and even with the best will in some walked up scenerios could happen again (as someone said earlier worth doing an extra warning if fox coloured dogs working)

As anaside probably a good reason not to work a dog of that colour, i bet years ago very few of that colour would be worked, but that was before dogs became fashion statements

 

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You answered your own question.

3 minutes ago, scotslad said:

he hasn't idetified his quarry which is breaking a golden rule.

I edited it because he hadn't identified it at all. He just saw something and shot that could have been anything. 

I wonder if he has ever shot a protected species, because he thought it was something else.

IMO he shouldn't have a gun, your opinion my differ.

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8 minutes ago, scotslad said:

 

 

Why???  I would imagine/hope it was a walked up/rough day so shooting ground game wouldn't be unusual.

Yes shooting the dog is far from ideal in certain circumstances can see how it would happen he hasn't fully idetified his quarry which is breaking a golden rule.

 

Sadly accidents happen and even with the best will in some walked up scenerios could happen again (as someone said earlier worth doing an extra warning if fox coloured dogs working)

As anaside probably a good reason not to work a dog of that colour, i bet years ago very few of that colour would be worked, but that was before dogs became fashion statements

 

So you would be happy shooting at something you haven't identified?

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No but i've been around shooting/beating lines long enough to know it happens.

 

1st time i heard of itmust of been 35yrs ago and a gsp got some how mistaken for a rabbit (or he shot behind the rabbit and got the dog) on a keepers day, so its nothing new

Althou thankfully pretty uncommon but still there is little point in buying/breeding fox coloured dogs ur just increasing the chance of an accident.

 

Newbie i wasn't there but it couldn't really of been anything, really only a choice of 2 things fox or dog he got it wrong, if ur in an area where u know u normally see a fox i can see how it hapened just a tragic accident

 

If u've never misidetified anything u've probably not been shooting that long (thankfully i've never pulled the trigger) but lost count the number times i've stalked into tree stumps that look like deer or snow on SS branches which look like a roe back end. Ur mind can play tricks on u esp if u expecting to see something

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But also has a fox ever ran into the drive past a line of guns?? (Which it would need to for a picking up dog to be shot) I doubt it with all the shooting and beaters making a noise/smells etc, plus the dog would be running accross open ground.

Happened numerous times on our shoot, so yes, but this was mainly in woodland, so no open ground.

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