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FAC advice for a new member


Growly
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10 hours ago, Growly said:

Thanks Ultrastu and oowee, I think your probably right about the .22lr and it makes sense to more the air to a .22 as oowee mentioned. 

I think I'll apply for fac air in .22, .17hmr and .243 with mods on all, I'll use my friends well laid out land with backdrops.

Whilst it’s not an issue they can enforce (as far as I have read and now understand) you may struggle getting cf for deer on your first application. Certainly round this neck of the woods the licensing depts want to see you have had an FAC for a while and that you have, or are making an effort towards getting your DSC1 before allowing cf rounds for deer. 

Don’t let me put you off trying just make sure you are well prepared when you have your FEO interview. I started out down the vermin control rf/air FAC before going for deer, that said I had most of my DSC1 before being granted cf. if I had had the benefit of hindsight I would have joined a local target club with my initial FAC and then just added the deer conditions to an existing caliber. 

That said I mostly use my rifles for target now (although I still have an open ticket with the other conditions), and belong to 2 clubs (this was up to 4 at one point a few years ago). 

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I think i'm going to put in an application for FAC air, .17hmr and .223 on my friends land (10 acres with great backstops) and not my own land (i'll save that for when my ticket goes open as I know where I can place my shot). this seems to be my best option after reading through all of the suggestions.

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Has his land been cleared for .223 and does he shoot foxes on it? If he does then go for that initially, you can tell the FEO of your interest in stalking and eventually extending your permission to taking small deer (Muntjac and CWD if you have them in your area) and once you have your DSC1 you will be applying for a full bore. 

In honesty? It never goes amiss with rifles if you join a local club. It’s quite remarkable how much weight a recommendation from the club sec holds.....😉

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20 minutes ago, The Burpster said:

Has his land been cleared for .223 and does he shoot foxes on it? If he does then go for that initially, you can tell the FEO of your interest in stalking and eventually extending your permission to taking small deer (Muntjac and CWD if you have them in your area) and once you have your DSC1 you will be applying for a full bore. 

In honesty? It never goes amiss with rifles if you join a local club. It’s quite remarkable how much weight a recommendation from the club sec holds.....😉

Hi Burpster, he has a lot of sheep on the land and has an issue with foxes, Stafford has a minimum requirement of CF on foxes, so I will give it a go on this one and discuss with the feo, cheers

I like the idea of the club too, cheers

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24 minutes ago, Growly said:

Hi Burpster, he has a lot of sheep on the land and has an issue with foxes, Stafford has a minimum requirement of CF on foxes, so I will give it a go on this one and discuss with the feo, cheers

I like the idea of the club too, cheers

Hey no worries, I miss shooting  that .357 Smith and LBP just isn’t the same..... 😢 fullbore rifle is a completely different discipline to pistol but once you get into it, it is just as compelling....... 

PSG is great fun tho’ 😊

Edited by The Burpster
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2 hours ago, Growly said:

Hi Burpster, he has a lot of sheep on the land and has an issue with foxes, Stafford has a minimum requirement of CF on foxes, so I will give it a go on this one and discuss with the feo, cheers

I like the idea of the club too, cheers

Complete BS if they do, what you need for fox is the most appropriate caliber!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So they tell all the Pest Controllers leaning out of a terrace house bedroom window shooting fox in a pocket handkerchief back garden that rimfire is not suitable and you MUST use a centrefire!   Bunch of idiots!!!!!!!!1

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12 minutes ago, Dekers said:

Complete BS if they do, what you need for fox is the most appropriate caliber!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So they tell all the Pest Controllers leaning out of a terrace house bedroom window shooting fox in a pocket handkerchief back garden that rimfire is not suitable and you MUST use a centrefire!   Bunch of idiots!!!!!!!!1

I seem to recall that hmr is an advised calibre option now on an advice note. I cant remember where I saw it but it was recent guidance.

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21 minutes ago, oowee said:

I seem to recall that hmr is an advised calibre option now on an advice note. I cant remember where I saw it but it was recent guidance.

Even the latest Home Office Guidance makes it clear that .22LR is  suitable in the right circumstances, that's a Loooooong way from centrefire!

Edited by Dekers
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18 minutes ago, oowee said:

I banged a fair few with my .22 from kitchen window. At sensible range they don't go anywhere.

I shoot loads in back gardens, stables, barns, chicken farms etc etc with rimfire, without doubt I shoot more with rimfire than centrefire and my .22LRs were specifically conditioned for Fox long before AOLQ arrived!

Any policy of Centrefire ONLY for Fox is ridiculous.

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4 hours ago, Growly said:

not my policy, but they only accept CF for fox in staffs, may well be overkill (excuse the pun).

As I said, its a stupid policy, it isn't overkill for some fox shooting!  There is NO ideal fox caliber, only an ideal fox caliber for each situation, so centrefire is often the wrong caliber!!

A policy laid down by idiots with no understanding, and even going against the Home Office (their Head Office) Guidelines!

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On 05/11/2018 at 14:38, Dave-G said:

Fac air is well on the way to what you can do with a .22lR. With what I know now I'd go for FAC air and HMR.

 

A not well known aspect of the HMR is that its sonic crack echo hides the source sound location from the rabbit. As seen here, they hear the sound but as long as you dont do anything else to give away your location they'll just sit and wonder where the noise came from for quite some time. These were all sub 100 yard shots.

 

Yes, I would try for a 17HMR. Precision and far more safety than a 22RF.  If you land is flattish then suggest putting a high seat to increase the safety aspect, it works even for larger deer calibres.  From a suitable position on 35 acres you could cover a lot of ground from a high seat with a 17HMR.  The sonic crack is only heard at the point the rabbit is standing and any others, as Dave says in the close vicinity will just sit for a while wondering what that was.  I missed a squirrel over the top yesterday...only half an inch or so, and the squirrel sat bolt upright and looking around as if to ask what that was and offered a far better shot for the second which did the job.  Pheasants feeding close bye did not lifet their heads.

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6 hours ago, bruno22rf said:

10 Acres is a bit er....petite for a centre fire to be blatting out rounds isn't it.

why??? your not going to be shooting the length of it.  any round you fire will hit target pass through or miss. then hit the chosen safe backstop. 

i know that sounds simple and if the area is in the middle of a housing estate and the ground is flat it would be a different scenario. but from a elevated position or shooting in to large backstop like a hill a centrefire is perfectly safe on a small parcel of land.

i have shot deer and foxes in very small patches as i would imagine most other cf users have. the the logic is you can fire a safe shot at a yard. yet a idiot could take a unsafe shot on huge patch 

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How can you assume that the shot will not be over the length of it? If it were 10 acres in a perfect square (just to make life easier) then just about any CF will shoot from end to end without even breaking a sweat - a .17 hummer is still going to be angry over such a range - you also assume that the shot will be taken from an elevated position and into a hill or safe backstop - this is the first time , I believe, that the OP has owned a CF rifle so I would presume that his FEO is going to err on the side of caution. No doubt that your ticket is "open" bumpy22 and therefore you have far more experience - that changes the parameters  considerably.

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11 hours ago, bumpy22 said:

why??? your not going to be shooting the length of it.  any round you fire will hit target pass through or miss. then hit the chosen safe backstop. 

i know that sounds simple and if the area is in the middle of a housing estate and the ground is flat it would be a different scenario. but from a elevated position or shooting in to large backstop like a hill a centrefire is perfectly safe on a small parcel of land.

i have shot deer and foxes in very small patches as i would imagine most other cf users have. the the logic is you can fire a safe shot at a yard. yet a idiot could take a unsafe shot on huge patch 

Whilst you and I may know safe shots with powerful rounds may safely be taken at short distances the vast majority of FEO simply look at size.

Unless you are actually shooing in a big deep hole with sides rising all round you size does usually have a bearing and generally, the smaller the land the less area of safe shot, obviously there are exceptions.

 

 

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50 minutes ago, Dekers said:

Whilst you and I may know safe shots with powerful rounds may safely be taken at short distances the vast majority of FEO simply look at size.

Unless you are actually shooing in a big deep hole with sides rising all round you size does usually have a bearing and generally, the smaller the land the less area of safe shot, obviously there are exceptions.

 

 

i thought now when on closed  certificate you had to show firearms officer the ground and where it was safe and not. then they decided. been years since i had first license and changed quite a bit. but my mate who i shoot with had his opened recent and he had to show them all around.

 

1 hour ago, bruno22rf said:

How can you assume that the shot will not be over the length of it? If it were 10 acres in a perfect square (just to make life easier) 

that would be quite a shot and one i think no one would take if it was near there boundary

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