oowee Posted November 6, 2018 Report Share Posted November 6, 2018 Beyond words disgusting. Public humiliation and scorn is what they deserve. The Police however should be allowed to police and not get dragged here and there on the whim of public opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted November 6, 2018 Report Share Posted November 6, 2018 Since when was bad taste a crime? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whatmuff Posted November 6, 2018 Report Share Posted November 6, 2018 (edited) It's not bad taste, it's filming and mocking people/children and animals that were burnt alive in a horrific fire. That's not free speech, it's utter disrespect and evil. To go through the effort of building a tower with the intention to show off and take the **** on unfortunate families? Yeah that's a crime in my book. I have two good mates both fireman. One that was on duty on the night and went into Grenfell who nearly lost his life and the other on the clean up Op in the morning, both have been seriously affected by the event and to have these ***** come up with this and film it is just beyond belief. Plus they had kids at the party???? ***, and we wonder why we have teenagers in today's thinking they can do as they please, well it's parenting like this that produces such individuals. Edited November 6, 2018 by Whatmuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted November 6, 2018 Report Share Posted November 6, 2018 4 minutes ago, Whatmuff said: It's not bad taste, it's filming and mocking people/children and animals that were burnt alive in a horrific fire. That's not free speech, it's utter disrespect and evil. To go through the effort of building a tower with the intention to show off and take the **** on unfortunate families? Yeah that's a crime in my book. I have two good mates both fireman. One that was on duty on the night and went into Grenfell who nearly lost his life and the other on the clean up Op in the morning, both have been seriously affected by the event and to have these ***** come up with this and film it is just beyond belief. Plus they had kids at the party???? ***, and we wonder why we have teenagers in today's thinking they can do as they please, well it's parenting like this that produces such individuals. Cant argue with that , but ... Is it a criminal offence ? The people concerned have 'handed themselves in' have they been arrested, charged ? If so ,Id like to know what with. Im NOT sticking up for them, but no matter how distasteful or 'evil' people think it , are we now setting a precedent where we have to be careful what we destroy, lest we offend someone ? How many Union Jacks have been burnt by ISIS supporters in this country, how many pictures of the queen, or other leading figures ? Is it a hate crime every time someone demonstrates hate ? Because if it is , were going to need a lot more police, and a lot more prisons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted November 6, 2018 Report Share Posted November 6, 2018 9 minutes ago, Rewulf said: Cant argue with that , but ... Is it a criminal offence ? The people concerned have 'handed themselves in' have they been arrested, charged ? If so ,Id like to know what with. Im NOT sticking up for them, but no matter how distasteful or 'evil' people think it , are we now setting a precedent where we have to be careful what we destroy, lest we offend someone ? How many Union Jacks have been burnt by ISIS supporters in this country, how many pictures of the queen, or other leading figures ? Is it a hate crime every time someone demonstrates hate ? Because if it is , were going to need a lot more police, and a lot more prisons. Exactly. Point was made on the radio that burning Guy Fawkes could be seen as a hate crime against Catholics. We need to be careful where we go with this stuff however distasteful. If it was posted on the net for others to see then maybe there is a crime there if designed to shock and offend? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted November 6, 2018 Report Share Posted November 6, 2018 1 minute ago, oowee said: Exactly. Point was made on the radio that burning Guy Fawkes could be seen as a hate crime against Catholics. We need to be careful where we go with this stuff however distasteful. If it was posted on the net for others to see then maybe there is a crime there if designed to shock and offend? Would anyone be able to prove that? As I have stated previously it is not illegal to be stupid! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted November 6, 2018 Report Share Posted November 6, 2018 I guess it depends on where and how it was posted. If they posted it on the Grenfell facebook page (i guess there is one? ) then I would imagine there is a case to be made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanBettin Posted November 6, 2018 Report Share Posted November 6, 2018 (edited) This should not be a crime, at all. It is a massive dig at free speech. It is absurd that we attempt to police people's scumbag humour, nobody likes these people, without doubt they are ****, but where do you draw the line at legislating offensiveness? EDIT: Apologies for the need for edit! Didn't know that level of censoring words was required, I'll keep it in mind. Edited November 6, 2018 by DanBettin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted November 6, 2018 Report Share Posted November 6, 2018 4 minutes ago, oowee said: I guess it depends on where and how it was posted. If they posted it on the Grenfell facebook page (i guess there is one? ) then I would imagine there is a case to be made. I agree with you in principle, but I would imagine there have been many offensive comments made about the minority victims of Grenfell, maybe on their FB page and elsewhere since it happened. There could well be comments on the Youtube video that are offensive ? But are we going to chase down every single one of them and prosecute, and if so , for what ? I dont believe you have to be directly involved in Grenfell to be offended by this, so if you have watched the video and been appalled , traumatised or indeed offended, then has a crime been committed against you ? Has public decency been outraged ? Its all well and good that people are outraged about the callous nature of these morons, but we have to be very careful where this ends up. If every time you get upset or offended by something, you feel its a reportable crime, then like I say, we are going to need a justice system the likes of which we most definitely cant afford. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted November 6, 2018 Report Share Posted November 6, 2018 1 minute ago, Rewulf said: I agree with you in principle, but I would imagine there have been many offensive comments made about the minority victims of Grenfell, maybe on their FB page and elsewhere since it happened. There could well be comments on the Youtube video that are offensive ? But are we going to chase down every single one of them and prosecute, and if so , for what ? I dont believe you have to be directly involved in Grenfell to be offended by this, so if you have watched the video and been appalled , traumatised or indeed offended, then has a crime been committed against you ?Has public decency been outraged ? Its all well and good that people are outraged about the callous nature of these morons, but we have to be very careful where this ends up. If every time you get upset or offended by something, you feel its a reportable crime, then like I say, we are going to need a justice system the likes of which we most definitely cant afford. Quite possibly but as you say where will all this "I'm offended" state of mind end? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted November 6, 2018 Report Share Posted November 6, 2018 8 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said: Quite possibly but as you say where will all this "I'm offended" state of mind end? Its already a runaway train in my opinion mate. But it costs time and money to investigate, and ties up services that are far more important. Burglary and crimes of violence barely get any attention, or god forbid, solved. Yet many force areas have a 'zero tolerance' policy on hate crime ? And then complain they have no money, not enough staff ? Your car or house gets broken into , and thousands of pounds of property are stolen or damaged, you get a crime number and a promise of a visit days later. Someone gets called a racist or homophobic name and the cavalry turn up and the gears of justice clank into life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walshie Posted November 6, 2018 Report Share Posted November 6, 2018 Bad taste? Yes. Stupid? Yes. A crime? No. It didn't even look like Grenfell. It was a cardboard box with Grenfell written on it. The fact everyone needs to video and post every aspect of their lives is asking for trouble. Someone would be "outraged" by almost every video out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted November 6, 2018 Report Share Posted November 6, 2018 12 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said: Quite possibly but as you say where will all this "I'm offended" state of mind end? I think it goes far beyond the state of mind stuff. With the internet everything we do and everything we think becomes so much more visible. It's difficult to avoid rational argument about so many things, be that causing offence to demonsrating hate, to hunting to fast cars to eating meat. It is that runaway train of doing right and good that is at the same time an infringement of liberty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow Bear Posted November 6, 2018 Report Share Posted November 6, 2018 8 minutes ago, Rewulf said: Someone gets called a racist or homophobic name and the cavalry turn up and the gears of justice clank into life. unless you are white and probably male in which case nothing is done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lrm1 Posted November 6, 2018 Report Share Posted November 6, 2018 14 hours ago, Pistol p said: Burn a box that looks like a tower block and the press goes nuts. Burn a union flag and poppies and its old news. Very well said, the press in general don't want to highlight real news .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted November 6, 2018 Report Share Posted November 6, 2018 17 minutes ago, oowee said: It is that runaway train of doing right and good that is at the same time an infringement of liberty. Is that what its all about ? Make it so that no one dare say or do anything that could be deemed offensive, keep their opinions to themselves and dont rock the boat ? No protests, no thinking outside the box, lest they be considered 'extreme' Voluntary totalitarianism, a police state for the mind, the ubiquitous virtual panopticon , self administered . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted November 6, 2018 Report Share Posted November 6, 2018 22 minutes ago, Rewulf said: Is that what its all about ? Make it so that no one dare say or do anything that could be deemed offensive, keep their opinions to themselves and dont rock the boat ? No protests, no thinking outside the box, lest they be considered 'extreme' Voluntary totalitarianism, a police state for the mind, the ubiquitous virtual panopticon , self administered . It's pretty sad. I cant help thinking that those of us born in the 60's had the best of it all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted November 6, 2018 Report Share Posted November 6, 2018 3 minutes ago, oowee said: It's pretty sad. I cant help thinking that those of us born in the 60's had the best of it all. Agreed, life was so much simpler then. I have conversations with my daughters about the news, where they regularly tell me 'You cant say that !' I say of course I can, its my opinion. They have this strange idea (from school and uni) that voicing an opinion that isnt quite PC, in the privacy of your own home, amongst family or friends, is borderline illegal ! The thought police are coming... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted November 6, 2018 Report Share Posted November 6, 2018 18 minutes ago, oowee said: It's pretty sad. I cant help thinking that those of us born in the 60's had the best of it all. Amen to that! We did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelope Posted November 6, 2018 Report Share Posted November 6, 2018 44 minutes ago, Rewulf said: Agreed, life was so much simpler then. I have conversations with my daughters about the news, where they regularly tell me 'You cant say that !' I say of course I can, its my opinion. They have this strange idea (from school and uni) that voicing an opinion that isnt quite PC, in the privacy of your own home, amongst family or friends, is borderline illegal ! The thought police are coming... The same as my two step kids. Frightening that they don't realise what is happening to them, and won't except it when you try to explain it. I believe it's called indoctrination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zipdog Posted November 6, 2018 Report Share Posted November 6, 2018 I blame the likes of games like cards against humanity etc, its seems there is no need to bother with good old fashion wit these days, just the more offensive and outrageous you can be the more funny you are!! Its interesting the public perception of such things, personally I think burning a model of Grenfell is disgusting and it wouldn't bother me if the participants were jailed for 10 years a piece, however on the contrary it appears perfectly acceptable for high profile comedians to make joke after joke about Madeline McCann, Princess Dianna, Jade Goody etc. Interesting, not too far from me a local village built a bonfire a place a Union Flag on top of it. This has caused great outrage, if I didn't know a family member of one of the organisers I would probably be the same, I know the family are very nice, patriotic people and was not burning the flag out of protest and disrespect, and it just never appeared to them the sensitivity of such a act. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6353545/Disgusted-families-walk-Guy-Fawkes-night-event.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted November 6, 2018 Report Share Posted November 6, 2018 2 hours ago, Rewulf said: How many Union Jacks have been burnt by ISIS supporters in this country, how many pictures of the queen, or other leading figures ? A union jack is not a person, the queen is but she did not get burned/asphyxiated to death and then cruelly parodied by some eejits 58 minutes ago, Rewulf said: Agreed, life was so much simpler then. Yeah B&W minstrel show, Alf Garnett, Carry on..., Love thy neighbour, Benny Hill https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5z584iybkyo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walshie Posted November 6, 2018 Report Share Posted November 6, 2018 Constantly stifling free speech can't change the way people think. IMO it can only go 1 of 2 ways. Either no-one ever says anything out loud about anyone and the government can rest contented that everything is tickedy-boo with the country, or everyone will get sick to the back teeth of it and go completely the opposite way. I know what my money's on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted November 6, 2018 Report Share Posted November 6, 2018 19 minutes ago, henry d said: A union jack is not a person, the queen is but she did not get burned/asphyxiated to death and then cruelly parodied by some eejits Yeah B&W minstrel show, Alf Garnett, Carry on..., Love thy neighbour, Benny Hill https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5z584iybkyo A flag represents a country, its people, disrespect the flag, you disrespect the people. What the scumbags in the video have done is beneath contempt, the question is , is it illegal ? To then talk about how bad the 60 s and 70s were because of shows like Alf Garnett and Love thy neighbour, is frankly a bit daft, times change and what was acceptable then, is not now. Did people get offended and complain back then ? Are you trying to say you didnt watch those programs back then and not find them entertaining ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted November 6, 2018 Report Share Posted November 6, 2018 Watch till the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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