Is Hydro-Electricity good?

[JohnfromUK]

I have always thought that hydro electricity was 'good' environmentally.  It seems not and in Europe and the USA its use is declining.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-46098118

I found it an interesting 'eye opener'.

[Jonno243]

Done properly Hydro is indeed a good, clean, renewable source of electricity. The problem, like many things, is that oftentimes environmental / ecological impact is not properly anticipated or measured (whether intentionally or not) and over the years profit takes precedence. Take for example the River Garry, once a considerable tributary of the Tay, and a fantastic salmon river in its own right. In 1937 they started abstraction from Loch Garry and the once prolific salmon river simply disappeared with nearly 20km becoming nothing more than a boulder scattered skeleton bordering the A9. It is only in recent years that re-watering of the Garry has commenced.

If you want a real eye-opener as to the price of hydro-power then take a look at Slides 8 & 9 here:

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiom_Ooob_eAhWNbMAKHUqLAJgQFjAAegQIAxAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Ffms.scot%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2017%2F04%2FSession-3-David-Summers-pdf.pdf&usg=AOvVaw26BZ6GUcJs1kQ4caBDwntB

Slide 8 shows the upstream side of the abstraction intake, Slide 9 shows the downstream side seconds later (the photographer simply turned 180 degrees)...

[JohnfromUK]

19 minutes ago, Jonno243 said:

If you want a real eye-opener as to the price of hydro-power then take a look at Slides 8 & 9 here:

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiom_Ooob_eAhWNbMAKHUqLAJgQFjAAegQIAxAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Ffms.scot%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2017%2F04%2FSession-3-David-Summers-pdf.pdf&usg=AOvVaw26BZ6GUcJs1kQ4caBDwntB

Slide 8 shows the upstream side of the abstraction intake, Slide 9 shows the downstream side seconds later (the photographer simply turned 180 degrees)...

You have a good point; I know the area in your link well, having spent many holidays within half a mile of the scenes in slides 10 and 11 (which is the confluence of the Garry and the Errochty which I know well being just below the kirk at Struan), and I have caught (trout) in the Errochty.  For those who know the A9 this is very near the 'House of Bruar'.

However, I think that many of the smaller local schemes in Scotland (there are some modern small ones in the upper part of Glen Lyon near Bridge of Balgie) that use water from tributaries that don't have spawning beds seem pretty 'friendly'.  On the Garry, they now do 'refreshers' regularly (used to be every Thursday when water was low) where a water release is done to allow the fish to move up river including from the Errochty dam and the Lyon dam.

On the big schemes overseas, I have no idea whether migratory fish are in those rivers at all?

[oowee]

Interesting point of view and clearly this stuff needs to be done sensitively and with full evaluation. Most large scale energy generation facilities of any type including wind and solar have there down sides be it in the way they operate or the way that they are produced. Few large scale developments go to plan or within budget. 

Energy storage in water, pumping water uphill with surplus energy, or new hydro schemes is likely to form a key part of future renewable energy programs.

 

I have paddled many of the dam controlled rivers in the UK they are a great recreational resource when other rivers are dry. 

[Nial]

They're brilliant if you have the right geograpgy and snow/rain to fill them,  you need a higher 'store' and a fairly local lower release point.

Noway makes a big pecentage of their electricity from hydro, very cheaply.

In the UK  we're nearly maxed out geography wise, I think there are one or two potential good sites for big hydro stations.

 

[oowee]

There is continuous talk of a Severn Barrage. That would make for one truly awesome canoe slalom course 🙂 

There are also lots of proposals for using tidal currents for generation. Do you know the 'Falls of Lora'at Connel. On spring tides the water through there is like paddling the Zambezi. 

[RockySpears]

  This is really just another attempt by the West to keep the Developing World just that, Developing, never Developed.  We have made good use of hydro, we really ought to let others do so too and additionally we could maybe lend a hand to reduce undesirable impacts.

  Tidal is an expensive joke, take a look at Swansea Lagoon.  £1 billion for as much power as I can produce on a rowing machine (or close to 😉).

 

RS

[JohnfromUK]

15 minutes ago, RockySpears said:

  This is really just another attempt by the West to keep the Developing World just that, Developing, never Developed.  We have made good use of hydro, we really ought to let others do so too and additionally we could maybe lend a hand to reduce undesirable impacts.

  Tidal is an expensive joke, take a look at Swansea Lagoon.  £1 billion for as much power as I can produce on a rowing machine (or close to 😉).

 

RS

Many years ago I visited the tidal one in France (Barage de la Rance) - and it was not considered a success even when fairly new.  I understand it is still operating and has recovered its build costs, but rather wonder how the accountancy was done?

Edited November 6, 2018 by JohnfromUK

[haynes]

So i understand that its quite inefficient but whats so wrong with waterwheels of old. Gently being caressed round with river water. No fish harmed no river diversions. Inefficient maybe but your getting something from nothing. 

[RockySpears]

2 hours ago, haynes said:

but your getting something from nothing

  No you are not.  You need to build the water wheel the generator the substation the mill pond and flood control.   You get nothing with low rainfall nor high rainfall, you need a river too.

You could consider wind and solar as "free" but the costs to capture "free" energy are simply not yet economical.

2 hours ago, JohnfromUK said:

Barage de la Rance

  This one is not just tidal though, it sits at the mouth of the river Rance and even then it only has a capacity factor of 28%.  It is a dam on the coast in effect.  Even then it was 20 years to repay the build costs:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rance_Tidal_Power_Station

 

RS