Choke Question

[wymberley]

7 minutes ago, Stonepark said:

The last lot of Gamebore Black Gold and White Gold Fibre 28g clay cartridges, i had ran at 350/oz for their 7.5 (2.4mm).

Yep. I went for the ones mentioned as - believe it or not - they patterned as well as the Hull PH in my guns. I did try both particularly as you did recommend the White Gold at the time.

[JohnfromUK]

For people like me who shoot a bit 'averagely' rather than well, and my game shooting is 'traditional' at fairly ordinary range (we get an occasional 'screamer' but most are 20-35 yards) I don't worry unduly about choke.  Not even quite sure what it is - but something like Improved and 1/4 or 1/4 and half.  All I know is that if I do my bit - it does its bit.  If it is beyond my range (which I consider to be about 40 yards as near as I can estimate) - I don't pull the trigger (unless it is a previously pricked bird).

When I shoot clays - I don't worry either (I use the same gun, but a cheaper cartridge!) - and again if I do my bit - it does its bit - and if there is a really long one - I have no worry about 'wounding' a clay.

Just get out and enjoy yourself.

I'm also an engineer by background and if you want to 'delve', there are a load of old and new publications about choice of choke, ranges, shot sizes, etc.  For a bit of fun have a read of https://www.amazon.co.uk/Shooting-High-Pheasants-Theory-Practice/dp/1846641330/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1541596985&sr=1-1&keywords=high+pheasants+in++theory

which was published over 100 years ago when they were even then debating the mysteries.  Written by a great experimenter from the Victorian age.  Gough Thomas's (real name G.T. Garwood) articles (he was guns editor for Shooting Times in the 1960s) are also a good read.  Fashions come and go ....... but the debate goes on!

[Scully]

7 hours ago, Gunman said:

Why is there so much **** talked about chokes ? Either you can shoot a gun and hit your target or you cant . Blame the chokes is nothing more than an excuse for you missing  . Yes there are circumstances when too much or too little choke can be a disadvantage as can be the cartridge used , gun fit , stance and mount . 

But in my near half century in the gun trade the instances of the choke being wrong , and usually to much choke for the shooting done ,has been in the minority  of most shooters problems .

Take the gun out and shoot it if you worry that each time you pull the trigger that the choke is not what you think it should be YOU WILL MISS !

A mate of mine bought a gun he liked 40 plus years ago , he has shot all over Europe , Grouse , Pheasant ,Partridge ,Doves and Pigeons and Ducks and Geese .

Asked what choke the gun has he said he had no idea and didn't really care or want to know , "just point in the right direction and pull the trigger ."

This. I was obsessed with choke as a clay shooting beginner, but even back then I didn’t get to the stage of some whom would swap chokes like billyo for each target....I simply couldn’t be bothered. After a few years and finally realising that if I missed it wasn’t down to the chokes, I decided to just split the difference and settled for half and half, and find it fits all my bills either for clays or game. 

I tend to shoot full while decoying though as I love to see that puff of chaff when a pigeon flies into that pattern. 🙂

[wymberley]

3 hours ago, JohnfromUK said:

For people like me who shoot a bit 'averagely' rather than well, and my game shooting is 'traditional' at fairly ordinary range (we get an occasional 'screamer' but most are 20-35 yards) I don't worry unduly about choke.  Not even quite sure what it is - but something like Improved and 1/4 or 1/4 and half.  All I know is that if I do my bit - it does its bit.  If it is beyond my range (which I consider to be about 40 yards as near as I can estimate) - I don't pull the trigger (unless it is a previously pricked bird).

When I shoot clays - I don't worry either (I use the same gun, but a cheaper cartridge!) - and again if I do my bit - it does its bit - and if there is a really long one - I have no worry about 'wounding' a clay.

Just get out and enjoy yourself.

I'm also an engineer by background and if you want to 'delve', there are a load of old and new publications about choice of choke, ranges, shot sizes, etc.  For a bit of fun have a read of https://www.amazon.co.uk/Shooting-High-Pheasants-Theory-Practice/dp/1846641330/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1541596985&sr=1-1&keywords=high+pheasants+in++theory

which was published over 100 years ago when they were even then debating the mysteries.  Written by a great experimenter from the Victorian age.  Gough Thomas's (real name G.T. Garwood) articles (he was guns editor for Shooting Times in the 1960s) are also a good read.  Fashions come and go ....... but the debate goes on!

It's interesting to note that in the later edition of one of his works he admitted that he (we) had probably got it wrong in some instances in view of fresh information published after he had written. I think it's probably more than coincidence that when he said this it coincided with studies carried out in view of the introduction of NTS and the need to accurately assess the performance of lead shot so that the performance of the new shot types could be fairly assessed against it.

[oldypigeonpopper]

4 hours ago, JohnfromUK said:

For people like me who shoot a bit 'averagely' rather than well, and my game shooting is 'traditional' at fairly ordinary range (we get an occasional 'screamer' but most are 20-35 yards) I don't worry unduly about choke.  Not even quite sure what it is - but something like Improved and 1/4 or 1/4 and half.  All I know is that if I do my bit - it does its bit.  If it is beyond my range (which I consider to be about 40 yards as near as I can estimate) - I don't pull the trigger (unless it is a previously pricked bird).

When I shoot clays - I don't worry either (I use the same gun, but a cheaper cartridge!) - and again if I do my bit - it does its bit - and if there is a really long one - I have no worry about 'wounding' a clay.

Just get out and enjoy yourself.

I'm also an engineer by background and if you want to 'delve', there are a load of old and new publications about choice of choke, ranges, shot sizes, etc.  For a bit of fun have a read of https://www.amazon.co.uk/Shooting-High-Pheasants-Theory-Practice/dp/1846641330/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1541596985&sr=1-1&keywords=high+pheasants+in++theory

which was published over 100 years ago when they were even then debating the mysteries.  Written by a great experimenter from the Victorian age.  Gough Thomas's (real name G.T. Garwood) articles (he was guns editor for Shooting Times in the 1960s) are also a good read.  Fashions come and go ....... but the debate goes on!

hello, he was a good read in the shooting times back in the 1960s, another writer of shooting books was a Major Ruffer i the The Art of Good Shooting, i read this more than Lady Chatterleys Lover

[Robertt]

The Art of Good Shooting, by Major Ruffer.

Without doubt the Bible of Side by Side shooting.

[JohnfromUK]

There are so many books on shooting, its a topic of its own, but Maj Ruffer lived to a grand old age and had an interesting military career.

Maj Ruffers orbituary (from the Daily Telegraph 2010)

Major JEM Ruffer

Oct 27, aged 98. Gunnery officer on the cruiser Norfolk, one of only two ships present throughout the action that ended with the sinking of the Bismarck. Was on the ship's bridge when Admiral Wake-Walker, having just witnessed the destruction of Hood and Prince of Wales turning away beaten, announced that Norfolk would engage Bismarck and "try and cripple her". News then came that Bismarck was about to be attacked by aircraft from the carrier Victorious, news which undoubtedly saved Norfolk. At the end of the war Ruffer commanded Churchill's bodyguard at Potsdam. Postwar he ran a travel agency – Ruffer Travel. He also opened a shooting school, wrote fortnightly for the Shooting Times for some 25 years, and was author of The Art of Good Shooting.

I believe Maj. Ruffer favoured a 'Churchill' style (I have his book) and I prefer the 'Stanbury' style which seems to work better for me - see Shotgun Marksmanship by Percy Stanbury and G.L. Carlisle.  Ultimately, it comes down to what you are comfortable with and both Stanbury and Churchill were exceptional shots and coaches (as no doubt was Ruffer).

[wymberley]

24 minutes ago, Robertt said:

The Art of Good Shooting, by Major Ruffer.

Without doubt the Bible of Side by Side shooting.

A "Rufferite" as he liked to call his disciples. Putting to one side the marksmanship element in his book, he was unlucky as no sooner had the ink nearly dried then the content of my previous post came into play. It wasn't long before the findings of the big mortality programmes in The States washed up on our shores and the results of other work in the USA and here in the UK began to show that what we had previously thought to be the case regarding shotgun ballistic capability was not strictly accurate.