How far will a shotgun kill game.

[welshwarrior]

5 hours ago, Hamster said:

You don't honestly believe that one instance of something you witnessed constitutes proof ? The notion that he missed those targets more because of the shell than the fact he was using a strange gun/ammo is almost too funny. 

Very strange coincidence isn’t it though that this  target of world class shoot off pair was hit the moment he used his favourite shell. Not saying he wouldn’t of hit it with anything else but I dislike coincidences. 

And if the barrels make no difference why do they offer multiple options, why do we hear of fibre wads not working well with back bored this that and the other.  

[Perazzishot]

Just now, yickdaz said:

just about spot on 

For starters the birds take a hell of a lot more reading, they are sliding, going up, coming down, speeding on the wind, slowing on the wind. No 2 birds are ever the same, you have to read every bird.

The shots yesterday were shooting 6:1 on stuff 25 yards high yesterday. On the 1st drive one old gun admitted he missed his 1st 16 shots then got 2 for his next dozen shots and that was an improvement on last week. This team shoot every week!

I've also seen posts on this very site of folk shooting 30 odd shots for no pigeons over decoys for none. 

[gotgcoalman]

interesting.

although Consett is at the far north of Co.Durham.

I'll save the number and give him a ring.

It would certainly be and enlighting  visit I'm sure.

[Vince Green]

Shotgun patterns are about probability. A pheasant can fly through a hole in a pattern at 40 yds and then another can be brought down ten seconds later at 60 yds like its been hit by a train.

Everybody should do serious pattern testing, and not just a few random shots. Without it you could not possibly understand the variables. People spend hundreds, even thousands on a shotgun then walk into a gun shop and the first question they ask is "what are your cheapest cartridge deal?" go figure why are they so cheap? 

You need to look at the holes in the pattern and reflect on how many clays could slip through. (clays were my bench mark) but most clays fly end on rather than in profile. A pigeon's body is much smaller than a clay.

Its my view that once you have done any serious pattern testing you will realise that 24s and 28 low budget loads simply don't cut it and are a con. Lead in the air is what counts and 32g 7s are what brings in the results.

[Hamster]

38 minutes ago, Perazzishot said:

You really are getting tiresome.

But knowing what I do about you from other posters and people on the clay circuit I'm not the only one who has an opinion on you Hamster. 

 

The only tiresome one is YOU, at least I have the courage of my conviction, the first thing I did when joining this forum was put my name on my profile and have always said I will back up my claims with any verifiable test. Now you need to grow a pair and admit you've been outclassed in real knowledge and found out to be living in a world of fantasy. 

Like I care what some losers think about me "on the clay circuit". 

15 minutes ago, welshwarrior said:

Very strange coincidence isn’t it though that this  target of world class shoot off pair was hit the moment he used his favourite shell. Not saying he wouldn’t of hit it with anything else but I dislike coincidences. 

And if the barrels make no difference why do they offer multiple options, why do we hear of fibre wads not working well with back bored this that and the other.  

It's called marketing and there are very well understood factors behind the reason why felt/fibre doesn't suit every barrel. 

[AYA117]

15 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

A pheasant can fly through a hole in a pattern at 40 yds

How can anyone know this?   Maybe it was a complete miss.

[yickdaz]

23 minutes ago, Perazzishot said:

For starters the birds take a hell of a lot more reading, they are sliding, going up, coming down, speeding on the wind, slowing on the wind. No 2 birds are ever the same, you have to read every bird.

The shots yesterday were shooting 6:1 on stuff 25 yards high yesterday. On the 1st drive one old gun admitted he missed his 1st 16 shots then got 2 for his next dozen shots and that was an improvement on last week. This team shoot every week!

I've also seen posts on this very site of folk shooting 30 odd shots for no pigeons over decoys for none. 

well that's down to ability and nothing else,  we are talking about ballistics 

[wymberley]

18 minutes ago, AYA117 said:

How can anyone know this?   Maybe it was a complete miss.

Whereas that is perfectly true, it may be fair to put it back into context from where it was taken and just think for a minute what VG was actually saying.

[AYA117]

3 minutes ago, wymberley said:

Whereas that is perfectly true, it may be fair to put it back into context from where it was taken and just think for a minute what VG was actually saying.

Thanks, but I can read! 

Edited November 14, 2018 by AYA117

[wymberley]

5 minutes ago, AYA117 said:

Thanks, but I can read! 

You're welcome.

[AYA117]

4 minutes ago, wymberley said:

You're welcome.

I am glad my Flatcoat cannot type as he has very strong views on this subject. He thinks that it is cruel shooting birds at extreme range as he has to go and pick them up.  

[Perazzishot]

42 minutes ago, Hamster said:

The only tiresome one is YOU, at least I have the courage of my conviction, the first thing I did when joining this forum was put my name on my profile and have always said I will back up my claims with any verifiable test. Now you need to grow a pair and admit you've been outclassed in real knowledge and found out to be living in a world of fantasy. 

Like I care what some losers think about me "on the clay circuit". 

It's called marketing and there are very well understood factors behind the reason why felt/fibre doesn't suit every barrel. 

You must be called Hamster then as no real name in profile!

No-one has answered the original question asking if any of the commenters have ever been to an extreme shoot. So I take it no.

You all go on about wounding yet it is part and parcel of shotgun shooting for numerous reasons VG was quite correct with cheap cartridges, pattern blowing, damp powder, cold cartridges, poor shooting, poor eyesight, long distance. Unless you are shooting at bits of paper it will happen. As explain extreme shoots gather at great distances at £50 per bird they are treated like grouse. Which again is another sport where due to the speed and movement ratios in excess of 6:1 with many wounded can often be recorded especially in Scotland but that would appear to be different hence why they are called the ultimate GAME bird. Shooting 4:1 is the average for most normal game shoots and used to rule on shot to count ratio to determine bags. 1:1 or 2:1 on a 200 bird day if shooting that well means you will have either 10 or 20 shots for your share of the bag. You should be shooting at birds that are testing your ability it is not pest control and not pillow casing birds because you can. That is poor etiquette.

Like I say I wasn't getting embroiled if anyone would like to attend an extreme shoot as my guest (to watch) I will do my best to accommodate and I'll allow you to form your own opinion. Certain criteria would apply for obvious reasons. 

[motty]

Hope this thread doesn't get locked, as the last similar one did. There is still more mileage in it yet, I'm sure.

I think it is wise that everyone who shoots does at least a little pattern testing with a few different cartridges. It really shouldn't be dismissed as a pointless/meaningless exercise.

I may have mentioned before, that I patterned some of my (usual pigeon load of 28 gm 7s) shells at 40 yards through 1/2 choke. I wasn't totally happy. This is why I almost exclusively use full/extra full for my live quarry shooting. This has had the desired effect.

As an aside, I don't believe cheap cartridges necessarily mean poor quality.

[yickdaz]

2 minutes ago, Perazzishot said:

You must be called Hamster then as no real name in profile!

No-one has answered the original question asking if any of the commenters have ever been to an extreme shoot. So I take it no.

You all go on about wounding yet it is part and parcel of shotgun shooting for numerous reasons VG was quite correct with cheap cartridges, pattern blowing, damp powder, cold cartridges, poor shooting, poor eyesight, long distance. Unless you are shooting at bits of paper it will happen. As explain extreme shoots gather at great distances at £50 per bird they are treated like grouse. Which again is another sport where due to the speed and movement ratios in excess of 6:1 with many wounded can often be recorded especially in Scotland but that would appear to be different hence why they are called the ultimate GAME bird. Shooting 4:1 is the average for most normal game shoots and used to rule on shot to count ratio to determine bags. 1:1 or 2:1 on a 200 bird day if shooting that well means you will have either 10 or 20 shots for your share of the bag. You should be shooting at birds that are testing your ability it is not pest control and not pillow casing birds because you can. That is poor etiquette.

Like I say I wasn't getting embroiled if anyone would like to attend an extreme shoot as my guest (to watch) I will do my best to accommodate and I'll allow you to form your own opinion. Certain criteria would apply for obvious reasons. 

so if you are well heeled you can attend ?

the vast majority on the site are good old down to earth working class shooters who cannot afford to go on the big driven days I,m one of them  I would love to do it but I don't feel I,m losing out  I prefer shooting  woodies  over anything else and I can also tell you there will guys on here who don't go on the big driven days and would out shoot a lot them boys 

[Perazzishot]

I'm a good old working class lad as are most I shoot with, builders, scaffolders, gas engineers, fencers etc.

Brought up with ferrets, air rifles, terriers and lurchers. Spent hours in fields, foreshore, chicken farms etc etc 

Was duck flghting the other night and goose shooting the following morning. To dismiss another myth. The money I spend on my shooting is hard earned and also passed down by sponsoring junior clay shots!

Edited November 14, 2018 by Perazzishot

[andrewluke]

4 minutes ago, motty said:

As an aside, I don't believe cheap cartridges necessarily mean poor quality.

but expensive cartridges will mean super duper range

[Hamster]

3 minutes ago, Perazzishot said:

You must be called Hamster then as no real name in profile!

 

Hmmm, you are right for a change, dunno what's happened but it was definitely there so something has obviously happened when the forum has been revised/improved. Anywhoo pretty much everyone who converses with me regularly here and on ShootClay knows I am Hammy the Hamster Hajilou as I suspect you too knew or else how on earth would you have known about all those buttsore fellows whom I have obviously offended 😂  😀.

The thing is if you know your subject and are prepared to argue the case when needed then you will make the odd enemy, from memory I know I have had spats with well known names (as well as the odd legend in his own mind) about subjects such as pitch, 100 yarders and "clay shoots today being too easy". In each case I have dismembered their arguments with articulate, well researched data and in the latter even managed to disprove it using actual stats going back 10 years. 

No one is more hated than he who speaks the truth - Plato. 

11 minutes ago, motty said:

As an aside, I don't believe cheap cartridges necessarily mean poor quality.

Agreed. 

[yickdaz]

5 minutes ago, Perazzishot said:

I'm a good old working class lad as are most I shoot with, builders, scaffolders, gas engineers, fencers etc.

Brought up with ferrets, air rifles, terriers and lurchers. Spent hours in fields, foreshore, chicken farms etc etc 

Was duck flghting the other night and goose shooting the following morning. To dismiss another myth. The money I spend on my shooting is hard earned and also passed down by sponsoring junior clay shots!

well the way you go on you wouldn't think it

[AYA117]

5 minutes ago, yickdaz said:

well the way you go on you wouldn't think it

Sorry! But what has his background to do with the subject of long range shooting? Or is that a very unacceptable personal attack...…..

[Perazzishot]

9 minutes ago, yickdaz said:

well the way you go on you wouldn't think it

no you have formed a judgement based on what you have read. My truck has goose decoys, pigeon decoys, hides, clay vest, Pillas, cartridges for every occasion and if there is a chance of a shot the gun is in the gunsafe.

[motty]

2 minutes ago, AYA117 said:

Sorry! But what has his background to do with the subject of long range shooting? Or is that a very unacceptable personal attack...…..

Really? Come on! Unacceptable personal attack? Why be offended on someone else's behalf?

[yickdaz]

3 minutes ago, AYA117 said:

Sorry! But what has his background to do with the subject of long range shooting? Or is that a very unacceptable personal attack...…..

no not a personal attack at all its just a debate on a forum happens all the time

[AYA117]

2 minutes ago, motty said:

Really? Come on! Unacceptable personal attack? Why be offended on someone else's behalf?

If you do not know, I feel sorry for you.

[Perazzishot]

It doesn't matter, but it shows people can build a picture badly wrong just because you 50/60 game days a year!

Brought up in lincolnshire and I was selling ferreted rabbits 30-40 a time when I was 12 years old for a £1 paunched.

Had more permission than I knew what to do with and worked at Nickersons game farm from 13 onwards! Did City and Guilds and HNC in Gamekeeping, Woodland, Deer Management and Wildlife Conservation!

Have full open firearms and was on call to the police until a few years ago.  

 

But enjoy sporting shooting as I have done all my life!

 

 

[Vince Green]

9 hours ago, motty said:

As an aside, I don't believe cheap cartridges necessarily mean poor quality.

Cheap cartridges often mean less lead, (that was the point I was making) since the object is to put a dense pattern of lead in the air I can't see how less lead can ever be better than more lead..

Edited November 15, 2018 by Vince Green