What a spineless cabinet we have

[Rewulf]

1 minute ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

May in Parliament at 10:30, one to watch!

Esther McVey has gone too!

There ll be no cabinet left by teatime 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Surely May cannot survive this?

[JRDS]

1 hour ago, Retsdon said:

He was the bloke who negotiated it! 

Very obviously not, all the work of Olly.

[Lloyd90]

24 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

May in Parliament at 10:30, one to watch!

Esther McVey has gone too!

Another one bites the dust! 

[yod dropper]

45 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

I'll happily concede that he didn't physically draft the agreement himself, but he was the 'Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union''. Are you suggesting that as Secretary of State he was so far behind on his brief that he  had no idea of what was being discussed and agreed concerning the terms for 'exiting the European Union'? If that's the case, he must have been even more incompetent and feckless than even I'd given him credit for.

 

No, not far behind, sidelined. Davis and Baker said they were working on one thing then found out that their work was being ignored in favour of parallel work done by Robbins. When Raab took over it was still Robbins but Raab fronted it. It's wholly possible Raab wasn't privy to the whole picture.

 

I'll add that some some MPs , commentators and journalists are still presenting it as if Davis/ Raab were running the show so I'll say it can be difficult to get to the truth.

Edited November 15, 2018 by yod dropper

[Vince Green]

1 hour ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Well there is probably no one who can do a worse job!

Corbyn would do a worse job

[Yellow Bear]

4 minutes ago, Vince Green said:

Corbyn would do a worse job

This would be obvious to anyone who listened to the snake Starmer this morning.

[Lloyd90]

I think May is too stubborn to quit, either she’ll continue along or someone will have to start a vote of no confidence. 

On the other hand, she MIGHT know that this deal will get rejected on the vote and then go back to the EU and say “either fold to the conditions we want or it’s a no deal” ... maybe then they’d see how serious this is? 🤷‍♂️

[Rewulf]

9 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said:

this deal will get rejected on the vote and then go back to the EU and say “either fold to the conditions we want or it’s a no deal” ... maybe then they’d see how serious this is?

This could be part of the plan, I have my suspicions...

[Retsdon]

1 hour ago, Lloyd90 said:

y “either fold to the conditions we want or it’s a no deal” .

So what are these conditions that you want met? That bit always seems a bit foggy to me.

[markm]

8 hours ago, JRDS said:

She has left us indefinitely in the Customs Union with all that entails and under the control of the ECJ until THEY decide we can leave.  That is most definitely not leaving!!!

It is not my job to sort Leaving it is Governments there should have been a plan before the vote was even offered but as we deal with the rest of the world on WTO with no issues we should have left with no deal on those terms then negotiated from a position of strength.

May is nothing but an EU Quisling and I hope she is gone by then end of the month.

But if you’re not happy (because you know the facts) then you must have a solution?  Right?

[Rewulf]

10 minutes ago, markm said:

But if you’re not happy (because you know the facts) then you must have a solution?  Right?

"as we deal with the rest of the world on WTO with no issues we should have left with no deal on those terms then negotiated from a position of strength."

There you go , wasnt difficult was it ? 😉

 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

1 hour ago, Lloyd90 said:

I think May is too stubborn to quit, either she’ll continue along or someone will have to start a vote of no confidence. 

On the other hand, she MIGHT know that this deal will get rejected on the vote and then go back to the EU and say “either fold to the conditions we want or it’s a no deal” ... maybe then they’d see how serious this is? 🤷‍♂️

Lloyd, what have you been smoking?

[Lloyd90]

9 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

Lloyd, what have you been smoking?

She must know the deal will flop if it goes to the commons. 

Wonder if she’ll step down or get the 48 letters first? One of the two about to be announced I think 🤔

[panoma1]

7 hours ago, yod dropper said:

No, not far behind, sidelined. Davis and Baker said they were working on one thing then found out that their work was being ignored in favour of parallel work done by Robbins. When Raab took over it was still Robbins but Raab fronted it. It's wholly possible Raab wasn't privy to the whole picture.

 

I'll add that some some MPs , commentators and journalists are still presenting it as if Davis/ Raab were running the show so I'll say it can be difficult to get to the truth.

The misapprehension we all hold is that politicians do any work, they don't! Politicians tell civil servants, officials an other gofors, what they want, and send them out to do all the leg work and make It happen!........they merely make decisions based on the resultant briefing/advice/options they are given! They will then grab all the credit for anything positive that comes out of it............and distance themselves and blame others, if things go wrong!

Raab would be just the same.........a front man! When he could see there were no personal qudos, plaudits or gain to be had....only criticism.......he walked!.......As did Davis.

May is in a different position she was running the show "the buck stops with her"...........but it will not stop her trying to avoid accountability by shifting responsibility, on to parliament to make the final decision!..............."I had a good deal, but parliament rejected it, don't blame me"

[oowee]

It's been a very expensive day 

[yod dropper]

43 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

Raab would be just the same.........a front man! When he could see there were no personal qudos, plaudits or gain to be had....only criticism.......he walked!.......As did Davis.

You do know about Davis and Robbins don't you? It's in the public realm now.

16 minutes ago, oowee said:

It's been a very expensive day 

Or, a buying opportunity.

[Remimax]

just watched news with some EU reps spouting off how they have been in  stronger position from the start so rightly have not given away anything in the negotiations.

i'm sorry but its time to remove this weak chaff of a leader and head down the no deal route with two fingers up at the 39billion payment the whole thing has gone beyond a joke.

 

[krugerandsmith]

8 hours ago, Lloyd90 said:

Another one bites the dust! 

I see her office in Tattenhall is right next door to a Funeral Directors. ....She's leaving the cabinet  but staying on the Gravy Train.  Horrible woman.

[Scully]

It’s now time for her to go and to be replaced with someone who actually wants to leave. 

[Mighty Ruler]

10 hours ago, Retsdon said:

He was the bloke who negotiated it!

The first Raab saw of this 500 page document was just before the cabinet meeting. May and Robbins kept Davis in the dark and tried to do the same with Raab, that’s a dictatorship, not democracy.

[Retsdon]

2 minutes ago, Mighty Ruler said:

The first Raab saw of this 500 page document was just before the cabinet meeting.

Then he should have resigned weeks ago. 

[12gauge82]

2 minutes ago, Mighty Ruler said:

that’s a dictatorship, not democracy.

Bang on, the entire political system of this country is. How can we have held the largest vote in this country ever, only for our politicians not to carry out the will of the people, it's the type of thing I'd expect from China.

[Retsdon]

1 minute ago, 12gauge82 said:

only for our politicians not to carry out the will of the people,

To be honest, I don't believe that people knew what getting out of the EU entailed. In fact, to judge by what they were saying at the time,  it's now quite apparent that most of Leave's leading lights were themselves no wiser. Either that or they were lying, but I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. As for May, I've had no time for her for years, not since she basically exiled me out of my own country, but nonetheless she is the Prime Minister and owes a duty of care to the country at large and consequently has to choose what is actually possible in practical terms rather than what might be desirable in theory.

1) Page 1, Rule 1 of EU law is that there is no access to the Single Market without compliance with its rules and regulations.

2) Britain, after 40 years of integration with the rest of the EU, NEEDS access to the Single Market (at least in the medium term) if the country is not to fall headlong  off an economic cliff.

3) Consequently any withdrawal agreement  will, of necessity, contain clauses which bind the UK to uphold the laws pertaining to the single market - at least in the medium term until other trading arrangements can be got up and running with third party countries and access given up.

It makes no difference what people wanted or voted for. No amount of garment rending, or wailing, or gnashing of teeth will alter the  economic reality of Britain's economic position or the legal reality of the Single Market. So better to just relax and make the best of what was always going to be a difficult and messy divorce.

[12gauge82]

5 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

To be honest, I don't believe that people knew what getting out of the EU entailed. In fact, to judge by what they were saying at the time,  it's now quite apparent that most of Leave's leading lights were themselves no wiser. 

Nonsense, it couldn't have been made clearer, either stay, or leave. 2 options, the country voted leave and she's done nothing of the sort no matter which way it's twisted.