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shootthepigeon

Don't trust all vets

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    This is more a cautionary tale, after following my vets advice to have my weimeraner bitch spayed at 9 and a half, which I realise is late however I was going to breed from hears she was a great companion and a great worker, but with a young family the time was never right. Now her last season wasn't without complications but a few antibiotics soon cleared that up, so I booked the opp in for 3 months later. This brings us to last Thursday at 11am as requested I took her in I didn't get to speak to the vet until I carried her onto the table, and she was put under, I was told to collect her around 2.30ish. I phoned the practice at around 3 as I hadn't heard anything, to be told she was on a drip and recovering well I even got to speak to the vet who said she was shocked to find out she was over 9, which I found strange as I would have thought her notes would have been available in the first place, I believe the only way she did find out was from one of her helpers who I told while in the waiting room. 

    I collected her around 5.30 with painkillers etc, now she was groggie but I expected that, I was up most of the night with her, but at 6am she collapsed so I phoned the vet who thought this was sometimes normal after aesthetic and could take up to 36hrs to get out of her system. I asked the vet to see her as her gums were just not right, she agreed and said there was little to be concerned about but just keep her warm etc and gave her more painkiller and vit b+, my girl died in my wife's arms at 10am on Friday.

    Now I would also like some advice as I don't want this happening to anyone else if I can help it. I have spoken to another trusted vet who has said the operation shouldn't have been advised, and at the very least a pre op blood test should have been done neither of which were offered as an option. Now where do I go ? No amount of money will fetch her back so I'm not interested in suing the vet, but I want her to understand and acknowledge her mistakes, to educate so this won't happen to anyone else. Any ideas?

    Sorry for the dabbling post but I had to get it off my chest infection in somewhere. 

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    I know this doesn’t assist but you will have signed a consent form that outlines risks with surgery, and that risk increases the older a dog gets.  Have you been offered any sort of explanation as to the cause of death?

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    Start making/publishing unproven accusations and that could lead you into deep doodah!.......the only way forward is to investigate why the dog died, and if any, get evidence of fault....this could be difficult and expensive, involving the courts, legal vultures...and expert witnesses....and remember like doctors vets probably have a professional agreement (close ranks!) and are reluctant to give evidence against or even criticise one another!

    I'm gutted for your loss....especially under the circumstances you describe!

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    I did sign a consent form, but I signed it on the general assumption that I was dealing with a professional, with the best of intentions, not someone who is too rushed to look at notes etc.

    The only explanation I have had is mass organ failure via text, and the dog was healthy when she left the practice, I am unclear how the vet could know this as she was  no where to be seen.

    I realise a postmortem etc would be the only way to go but my girl was at home and I wouldn't let her away again,sounds daft but I owe her that. 

    As I said I'm not after financial recompense, I just want the vet to realise what has happened by cutting corners to possibly avoid future trauma  for any others. Other than trying to vent my splein, I just wonded/wished there was a vets ombudsman or something, the only things I have seen are no win no fee, or the vet can't be at fault.

    Edited by shootthepigeon
    Spellchuck, and content added

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    Very sorry for your loss.

    I would expect the only way to find out what happened is a post-mortem. Without the full answer I would expect the vet to stand by what they done unless you can prove negligence and I would think it would be impossible without a post-mortem. 

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    Very sorry to hear of your loss Shootthepigeon. 

      It sounds to me from the sequence of events that your bitch had bled internally from one of the ovarian arteries where a ligature had slipped; With this there is a slow deterioration, weakness, pale membranes, rapid respiration & heart beat. It is sad that the vets did not take her back in ,put her on fluids & investigate the reason for her deterioration.

       I know you didn't want to take her back for a post mortem ...you are quite right that it would not bring her back,& if you did want to find out for further information for you and the Vets concerned that is the only way.

       Most dogs over 8 years should have pre anaesthetic bloods done to avoid any nasty surprises during anaesthesia; Post operative organ failure is unlikely unless your bitch was already suffering some major system dysfunction before her operation which sounds unlikely from what you say. Haemorrhage from a slipped ligature post spaying is ,however quite common & has happened to all Vets who do this surgery regularly at one time or another. It is a difficult operation. But anyone with experience should recognise the signs & intervene quickly  & the dog then recovers quite quickly.Some bitches will leak blood from the wound but if this does not happen  the pale mucous membranes are an easy pointer.

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    Sorry, meant to add to the above post but work beckoned.

    All complaints will have to start with the vet practice, it will have a complaints process that it must follow.

    I would personally call the RCVS first just to ascertain what I should expect from the process.

    Opening a complaint would, I feel, be the best way to achieve your goal of wanting avoidance of further pain for others by way of their standard operating procedures being reviewed.  I would just happen to mention that you are opening the complaint after taking advice from the RCVS without labouring the point - just so the practice are aware that you do expect that your concerns are taken seriously. An official complaint should have a specific timescale for a response and an escalation process.

    I would hope that the practice would offer to do an autopsy for free in your case once you have informed them of your concerns and what you expect your complaint to achieve which appears very reasonable.

    All the above is all very well but mainly thoughts are with you and your wife for your loss.

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    Its not just Vets you shouldn't trust, these sort of negligence things can happen to people as well. Any forms of medical treatment carries a risk sadly. Trying to get anyone to admit anything is one big uphill struggle.

     

    Edited by Vince Green

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    sorry for your loss  very sad  scenario  ,   lets be honest its a common op   the vet in question needs to learn a very valuable lesson  from this .

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    Can you clarify whether the original vet you had discussed the necessity to have the operation with was a different vet to that which undertook the operation, it sounds as if this was the case.

    We have had some not brilliant experiences with our local vet practice where we have recently dealt with a young vet who is a "text-book" practitioner (as described by the experienced practice vet) rather than actually utilising any common sense/experience.  Our experienced is not too complimentary about their methodology.  We have specified that we no longer wish to be seen by this particular vet.

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    It was the same vet all the way  through (only one at practice) they have looked after my mother's horse's and dogs for the last 20 years at least. I don't know if this made a difference in her lax approach, but I aim to find out.

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    Let it go - mistakes happen and sometimes bad things just come our way - if you go to a lot of trouble over your dogs treatment you will, most likely, gain nothing but bad feelings over the whole affair that could sully your memory of her.

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    On 20/11/2018 at 12:15, shootthepigeon said:

    This is more a cautionary tale, after following my vets advice to have my weimeraner bitch spayed at 9 and a half, which I realise is late however I was going to breed from hears she was a great companion and a great worker, but with a young family the time was never right. Now her last season wasn't without complications but a few antibiotics soon cleared that up, so I booked the opp in for 3 months later. This brings us to last Thursday at 11am as requested I took her in I didn't get to speak to the vet until I carried her onto the table, and she was put under, I was told to collect her around 2.30ish. I phoned the practice at around 3 as I hadn't heard anything, to be told she was on a drip and recovering well I even got to speak to the vet who said she was shocked to find out she was over 9, which I found strange as I would have thought her notes would have been available in the first place, I believe the only way she did find out was from one of her helpers who I told while in the waiting room. 

    I collected her around 5.30 with painkillers etc, now she was groggie but I expected that, I was up most of the night with her, but at 6am she collapsed so I phoned the vet who thought this was sometimes normal after aesthetic and could take up to 36hrs to get out of her system. I asked the vet to see her as her gums were just not right, she agreed and said there was little to be concerned about but just keep her warm etc and gave her more painkiller and vit b+, my girl died in my wife's arms at 10am on Friday.

    Now I would also like some advice as I don't want this happening to anyone else if I can help it. I have spoken to another trusted vet who has said the operation shouldn't have been advised, and at the very least a pre op blood test should have been done neither of which were offered as an option. Now where do I go ? No amount of money will fetch her back so I'm not interested in suing the vet, but I want her to understand and acknowledge her mistakes, to educate so this won't happen to anyone else. Any ideas?

    Sorry for the dabbling post but I had to get it off my chest infection in somewhere. 

    Late on this, sorry for your loss. I had something similar last September, spayed at 2, groggy after but the day after not good. She lost a couple of litres of blood before collapsing as the vet made a comment on the notes, internal bleeding but left her be. Sue them for all there worth 

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    sorry for your loss, but at 9 i dont think the vet should have done it, that is a bit to old,i had my dog done at 10 mounths vet said a bit young but they did do it, all turned out ok,

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    8 hours ago, Hendrix's rifle said:

    Late on this, sorry for your loss. I had something similar last September, spayed at 2, groggy after but the day after not good. She lost a couple of litres of blood before collapsing as the vet made a comment on the notes, internal bleeding but left her be. Sue them for all there worth 

    I don't really want to sue them as it's not my way, but if it is the only way I can make her understand where I believe she has fsiled us, firstly by advising the operation, not advising a pre aesthetic bloods or check up (I even phoned the practice before hand to see if this was required), basically not checking notes as to dogs age etc, releasing the bitch from her practice without checking her over, and finally not spotting the obvious signs 12hrs after, just putting her pale gums increased heart rate and lower than normal temp simply down to her been too cold. The only bloods that were taken was the tiniest drop at around 6.45 the day after the op, which she struggled to get any, now to me this should have raised many concerns to a proffesional after doing some homework it certainly does to me. 

    I have tried the RCVS who have said unless there is gross misconduct there is little they can do, I will await a reply from the vets, but it all may be a waste of effort, but if I don't do anything and find this happens again I wouldn't be happy!

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    10 hours ago, shootthepigeon said:

    I don't really want to sue them as it's not my way, but if it is the only way I can make her understand where I believe she has fsiled us, firstly by advising the operation, not advising a pre aesthetic bloods or check up (I even phoned the practice before hand to see if this was required), basically not checking notes as to dogs age etc, releasing the bitch from her practice without checking her over, and finally not spotting the obvious signs 12hrs after, just putting her pale gums increased heart rate and lower than normal temp simply down to her been too cold. The only bloods that were taken was the tiniest drop at around 6.45 the day after the op, which she struggled to get any, now to me this should have raised many concerns to a proffesional after doing some homework it certainly does to me. 

    I have tried the RCVS who have said unless there is gross misconduct there is little they can do, I will await a reply from the vets, but it all may be a waste of effort, but if I don't do anything and find this happens again I wouldn't be happy!

    You can request from the vets the report of the surgery, might be worth going through that to see what's been said. That's how we found out our girl had an internal bleed and it 'held up the rest of the surgery' that was a proper botch job what he did... I do know where your coming from in regards to sueing, I didn't because of one person's bad job however the rest of the vets sorted it ASAP as in she was having emergency surgery within an hour and a half or so (had to drive half hour to a specialist) and they paid out for everything including going in every day for blood tests and counts. It's definite negligence what they have done to you and unfortunately your girl. They shouldn't have operated in the first place, after that they should have checked your concern about gums and sorted it there and then. Personally, again, not my way but I'd be ******* them over for it and if the same situation arose with myself I wouldn't be playing nicely about it! And my Mrs says the same thing, they might think twice next time. Sorry again 

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    42 minutes ago, Hendrix's rifle said:

    You can request from the vets the report of the surgery, might be worth going through that to see what's been said. That's how we found out our girl had an internal bleed and it 'held up the rest of the surgery' that was a proper botch job what he did... I do know where your coming from in regards to sueing, I didn't because of one person's bad job however the rest of the vets sorted it ASAP as in she was having emergency surgery within an hour and a half or so (had to drive half hour to a specialist) and they paid out for everything including going in every day for blood tests and counts. It's definite negligence what they have done to you and unfortunately your girl. They shouldn't have operated in the first place, after that they should have checked your concern about gums and sorted it there and then. Personally, again, not my way but I'd be ******* them over for it and if the same situation arose with myself I wouldn't be playing nicely about it! And my Mrs says the same thing, they might think twice next time. Sorry again 

    When I spoke to the vet at around 3pm, she mentioned an internal bleed that she had managed to the off??, I only wish now i had stuck to my gut instinct and cancelled the opp, but I felt it relatively safe as the bitch was as fit as could be and showing no signs of her advancing years.

    I just feel so let down by someone I thought I could trust, and the more I read into this situation the more it becomes apparent how little you can actually trust anyone.

     

    Edited by shootthepigeon

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    1 hour ago, shootthepigeon said:

    When I spoke to the vet at around 3pm, she mentioned an internal bleed that she had managed to the off??, I only wish now i had stuck to my gut instinct and cancelled the opp, but I felt it relatively safe as the bitch was as fit as could be and showing no signs of her advancing years.

    I just feel so let down by someone I thought I could trust, and the more I read into this situation the more it becomes apparent how little you can actually trust anyone.

     

    Sounds familiar, that will be on record so the fact that she had a bleed, wasn't very well after with light gums should have been all they needed mate. You know when you heart/lung shoot a deer, they stand and wobble over, that's what mine did that's what gave it away for me. I hope you take this further and make sure you get a copy of the report before it goes missing or the computer wipes it... good luck and I hope your self and your family is ok 

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    Sorry for your loss, it's an absolute heart breaker. 

     

    Unfortunately if you don't want a postmortem I'm not sure it's going to go anywhere, and even if you do have one, it's not going to change what's happened. Honestly I think your flogging a dead horse and you can throw time, money and emotion into it but at the end of the day it will just cause you further distress and heart ache. 

    Once again very sorry for your loss bud 😞 

     

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