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Effective Killing Range of Steel Shot


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2 hours ago, Perazzishot said:

1st thread I’ve started! So that’s an interesting statement! It’s funny how you respond to posts and get slated! 

I quoted driven duck shooting and it’s turned round to wildfowling which is completely different, certainly does not involve firing 250+ shots!

the thread has been twisted to suit an agenda, the point being made was on a recent day the whole party of guns repeatedly complained about numerous ducks being hit hard at various ranges and not killing them cleanly as what they would have done with lead! 

Now in any pattern at any range over 30 yds the Head becomes a very small target which can be missed in a very accurate shot. If steel does not cleanly kill due to the lack of expansion/deformation on impact is it really correct to be using it when ducks are flying on and dying later, especially when on many occasions where picking up can not be easily carried out!

Address the post not the poster!

Taken the morning after i took my grandson for a moonflight two days after his 18th birthday.

Gun Hatsan 28" barrel original 1/2 extended choke  Cartridges Gamebore Super Steel 3's 70mm 32grm and Fiochi Steel 4's 70mm 32grm.

The only thing Driving them was Hunger - Rising Tide and a Moon lit sky NO decoys all flighting . None of these was hit then flew on to drop 

 

10272018164647.jpg

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My point being it has range but anything you kill has to be in the head from 30 yds plus to kill effectively and consistently as per the title effective killing range!

6 minutes ago, yickdaz said:

you said you seen guys shoot duck and geese at 100 yards with steel in another post make up your ,mind 

 

 

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12 minutes ago, Perazzishot said:

My point being it has range but anything you kill has to be in the head from 30 yds plus to kill effectively and consistently as per the title effective killing range!

 

 

oh right so the guys who you saw kill birds at 100 yards were all head shots ?

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1 minute ago, yickdaz said:

oh right so the guys who you saw kill birds at 100 yards were all head shots ?

When picked the extreme range birds including geese had been hit in the head yes!

1 minute ago, 6.5x55SE said:

Correct Mat. I'm sure everyone can see blood on the breast of some of the birds

Obviously you have a pattern so they were hit in multiple areas possibly and most likely in the head if you are saying they were all dead.

What you don't know is how many were hit and flew as you say it was a moonflight so no idea what fell 100 yards away you picked what fell around you.

Moonflights would be the worst for not being able to retrieve birds cleanly killed!

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On 14/11/2018 at 20:53, wymberley said:

Couple of points if I may. Is "George" Proper Cartridges and with regards to the original thread, is "only two petals" related to plastic wads?

 

On 14/11/2018 at 20:54, Perazzishot said:

delivered me 20'000 clay shells last month 😀

yes and yes

 

 

22 minutes ago, Perazzishot said:

So on a day where 1100 shots were fired and a number of ducks were shot hard and made it back to ponds to be be found dead on the water I start a thread to provoke a discussion which results in personal abuse of me and my fellow experienced shooters on a shooting forum. You couldn't make this up! 

A point I'm getting at here is how many folk are hitting (maybe not knowing) quarry using steel shot and making no attempt to retrieve it as it goes on to die later? Is steel being used as a cheap alternative to satisfy the crazy laws made by non shooting committees?

We are polluting watercourses and wetlands with huge plastic wads, in Scotland it is the land on which you shoot which determines the use of non toxic not the species as in England. 

If I can speak to 00's of shooters who say the same then surely it should be banned?  

Why are you moaning about plastic wads in wetlands yet happy to use them on pheasant days?

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44 minutes ago, Perazzishot said:

When picked the extreme range birds including geese had been hit in the head yes!

Obviously you have a pattern so they were hit in multiple areas possibly and most likely in the head if you are saying they were all dead.

What you don't know is how many were hit and flew as you say it was a moonflight so no idea what fell 100 yards away you picked what fell around you.

Moonflights would be the worst for not being able to retrieve birds cleanly killed!

I'll take a chance that the Mod's of this site Don't Red Card me .

Your ain't got a clue just a wind up merchant who obviously enjoy it.

For the record yes I've injured all types of birds lost birds with ALL types of shot because I'm Human also a few respected members of the forum have seen me shoot plenty of Geese using Steel from a 20ga Motty being one who I'm sure would/will confirm i don't go leaving dead or dieing Geese scattered everywhere.

As for Moon shooting again you are clueless as like most i know i use Dog's which again I'm sure others have experience of there dog going off to retrieve a Goose or Duck not knowing it had been hit ( dog's having better hearing and eyesight than humans ). You'd do well to post sensible questions/answers rather than the bull pooop you do enjoy living in your weird full of Bull world myself I'll continue to Keep in Real

 

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1 hour ago, Perazzishot said:

 

A point I'm getting at here is how many folk are hitting (maybe not knowing) quarry using steel shot and making no attempt to retrieve it as it goes on to die later? Is steel being used as a cheap alternative to satisfy the crazy laws made by non shooting committees? This equally applies to lead also and is exactly the point people were trying to get across to you in the shooting extreme pheasants thread, but the same logic doesn't seem to have occurred to you in this thread. 

We are polluting watercourses and wetlands with huge plastic wads, Yes, we probably are, but legislation would evidently prefer this to lead. There will no doubt come a day when this is used as a means to stop us shooting altogether...no lead as it's toxic and no steel because the wads are plastic.  

If I can speak to 00's of shooters who say the same then surely it should be banned?  Steel or plastic?

 

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1 hour ago, Perazzishot said:

When picked the extreme range birds including geese had been hit in the head yes!

Obviously you have a pattern so they were hit in multiple areas possibly and most likely in the head if you are saying they were all dead.

What you don't know is how many were hit and flew as you say it was a moonflight so no idea what fell 100 yards away you picked what fell around you.

Moonflights would be the worst for not being able to retrieve birds cleanly killed!

well there is nothing down for any of us if we can't find a birds head with a pellet we will kill nothing 

9 minutes ago, 6.5x55SE said:

I'll take a chance that the Mod's of this site Don't Red Card me .

Your ain't got a clue just a wind up merchant who obviously enjoy it.

For the record yes I've injured all types of birds lost birds with ALL types of shot because I'm Human also a few respected members of the forum have seen me shoot plenty of Geese using Steel from a 20ga Motty being one who I'm sure would/will confirm i don't go leaving dead or dieing Geese scattered everywhere.

As for Moon shooting again you are clueless as like most i know i use Dog's which again I'm sure others have experience of there dog going off to retrieve a Goose or Duck not knowing it had been hit ( dog's having better hearing and eyesight than humans ). You'd do well to post sensible questions/answers rather than the bull pooop you do enjoy living in your weird full of Bull world myself I'll continue to Keep in Real

 

I think most of us are thinking exactly the same 

Edited by yickdaz
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9 hours ago, Diss4111 said:

Clearly in those 45 years of shooting you have never learned to read distance, there is no way in this world that ducks and more importantly geese been killed at 100 yards. You are a deluded individual with no clue about anything other than trying to wind people up.

Steel is an effective shot, and is available with a fibre shot cup and can be homeloaded with various loads in this format. Lead pollutes too, but at least steel doesn't cause lead poisoning

I don't doubt that plenty of geese have been shot at 100 yards. I'm not recommending it, though.

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4 hours ago, Perazzishot said:

1st thread I’ve started! So that’s an interesting statement! It’s funny how you respond to posts and get slated! 

I quoted driven duck shooting and it’s turned round to wildfowling which is completely different, certainly does not involve firing 250+ shots!

the thread has been twisted to suit an agenda, the point being made was on a recent day the whole party of guns repeatedly complained about numerous ducks being hit hard at various ranges and not killing them cleanly as what they would have done with lead! 

Now in any pattern at any range over 30 yds the Head becomes a very small target which can be missed in a very accurate shot. If steel does not cleanly kill due to the lack of expansion/deformation on impact is it really correct to be using it when ducks are flying on and dying later, especially when on many occasions where picking up can not be easily carried out!

Address the post not the poster!

I 100% do not subscribe to the theory that lead pellets are lethal due to any deformation on impact.

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12 minutes ago, Perazzishot said:

On driven duck shoots in Scotland you see far more clean kills at all ranges where lead is being used. Could be a combination of lead and pattern!

 

I reckon lead has the edge at the upper end of range. I would love to know what miracle cartridges were being used for the 100 yard ducks and geese. Where can I get some?

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I've never used lead on wildfowl,  my fowling career began long after the ban. 

Never once have I found myself wishing I had lead shot in my gun, I have killed ducks and geese at all sensible ranges using steel shot.

On a flight a couple of weeks ago, 2 pinks taken with ounce and a half steel 1s, at the upper end of range, both stone dead. The very next day, a single pink taken, at the same range, with 2 ounces of hevi shot 2s from a 10 bore, tightly choked. Far superior shot, but the bird recovered just before the ground and was picked well out on the mud, what was the difference? Simple, I put the shot in the wrong place. 

All this lead does this, steel doesn't do this, oh no you need ground unicorn horn as buffer, load of tosh. The cartridges we have avalible to us today, can and will kill at all sensible ranges.  I'm not talking about the 100 yard nonsense, that's comparable to what comes out of a bulls behind! Keep it 50 yards and everything is dead if you put the effort in.

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Isn't it more to do with the folks who wildfowl having respect for their quarry, and developing / using loads that they know will be lethal.

Whereas I'll bet most of the guys who shoot driven duck see steel as a necessary evil at best, and at worst have had to be forced onto it after many years of shooting 'leadmuth'.

Stick Motty, Muncher, Oxford fowler and me on a driven duck day and you'll see how steel kills .... dead. And we wouldn't need 1100 shots to get the bag either !!

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14 minutes ago, Perazzishot said:

Ok Smokersmith I'll put you all on my day next season. No shooting rubbish everything over 40 yards and I'll happily shoot with the 4 of you!

I'll put 4 other guys on it who won't lift their gun to anything under 60 yards and we'll see how we get on!

 

In my time on this forum I have read some absolute rubbish from some contributors. Yours is right up there with the very worst. Just give up whilst you are behind.

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22 minutes ago, Perazzishot said:

Ok Smokersmith I'll put you all on my day next season. No shooting rubbish everything over 40 yards and I'll happily shoot with the 4 of you!

I'll put 4 other guys on it who won't lift their gun to anything under 60 yards and we'll see how we get on!

 

 

Shall I come along with my range finder to verify the ranges?

Factory cartridges only, so as we can verify that yourself and your other 4 guys are not using lead illegally?

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2 minutes ago, Smokersmith said:

I’m really confused now .... !!

Goaded into a ‘competition’ with a team of guns who can’t cleanly kill ducks?

 

 

You've got it all wrong, these are the most elite guns in the country, a bird under 60 yards is just too easy for them! 

 

I'd hate to pick up on that shoot, runners left right and centre! 

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