Chezney Posted November 26, 2018 Report Share Posted November 26, 2018 (edited) Hi all, I'm looking to load my own cartridges, and a few for friends too, when we shoot together. I've been reading through as much interweb chat as possible on the topic and feel I have an OK, very basic understanding of the process and some vague guidelines. Without getting is to a mass-debate (haha) about whether this truly matters, or if certain cartridges truly get the MV stated (as I have read from the stickers posts it's often not the case), we (myself and my two shooting buddies) all like 'fast' cartridges - >1450fps (35g RC HPF3 is the usual) and I was wondering if you had managed to concoct a 35-36g 5-shot fibre wad cartridge, 30g 6-shot fibre wad cartridge or a 26-28g 7.5 or 8shot fibre wad cartridge that would get this kind of ballpark speed (without ridiculous recoil), and if so would you be so kind to share you recipe (brand and weights/sizes etc. of components)? TIA Chezney Edited November 26, 2018 by Chezney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted November 26, 2018 Report Share Posted November 26, 2018 3 minutes ago, Chezney said: Hi all, I'm looking to load my own cartridges, and a few for friends too, when we shoot together. I've been reading through as much interweb chat as possible on the topic and feel I have an OK, very basic understanding of the process and some vague guidelines. Without getting is to a mass-debate (haha) about whether this truly matters, or if certain cartridges truly get the MV stated (as I have read from the stickered posts it's often not the case), we all like 'fast' cartridges - >1450fps (35g RC HPF3 is the usual) and I was wondering if you had managed to concoct a 35-36g 5-shot fibre wad cartridge, 30g 6-shot fibre wad cartridge or a 26-28g 7.5 or 8shot fibre wad cartridge that would get this kind of ballpark speed (without ridiculous recoil), and if so would you be so kind to share you recipe (brand and weights/sizes etc. of components)? TIA Cheney Blimey that's a massive generalisation! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chezney Posted November 26, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 26, 2018 7 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said: Blimey that's a massive generalisation! "We" being myself and the two people that would potentially also use my loads Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted November 26, 2018 Report Share Posted November 26, 2018 Dude. Forget chasing a number that doesnt really shouldn't matter that much. Chase quality Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chezney Posted November 26, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 26, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, cookoff013 said: Dude. Forget chasing a number that doesnt really shouldn't matter that much. Chase quality It's a good point. I'd sooner see a consistent pattern, but I do find I go much better with a faster cartridge if all other things are equal. Could a fast(er) cartridge not also be good quality? Edited November 26, 2018 by Chezney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted November 27, 2018 Report Share Posted November 27, 2018 9 hours ago, Chezney said: It's a good point. I'd sooner see a consistent pattern, but I do find I go much better with a faster cartridge if all other things are equal. Could a fast(er) cartridge not also be good quality? just what is 1450fps you are looking for? its a number, it means almost nothing. 14 hours ago, Chezney said: I've been reading through as much interweb chat as possible on the topic and feel I have an OK, very basic understanding of the process and some vague guidelines. do your self a favour, forget trying to get "all" shells at 1450fps. just forget. make a nice decent shell 1250fps / 1300fps, use high quality components, such as good hard italian lead, good wadding and powders at the right burn rate (with the associated data) without being too silly. i would never trust anyone to reload for me, especially when you are pretty much chasing the high end of the speed envelope. with (assumed) very little experience of reloading. while i`m pretty confident you can actually make a shell, its not hard. maybe you shouldnt believe everything on the internet. its full of weirdos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted November 27, 2018 Report Share Posted November 27, 2018 10 hours ago, Chezney said: It's a good point. I'd sooner see a consistent pattern, but I do find I go much better with a faster cartridge if all other things are equal. Could a fast(er) cartridge not also be good quality? How do you know you do better with a faster cartridge? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted November 27, 2018 Report Share Posted November 27, 2018 (edited) He and his Mates have bought in to the cartridge manufacturers "high speed is good" sales blurb which he now wants to replicate by home-loading. How to blow a good pattern, part 1 Edited November 27, 2018 by TIGHTCHOKE Syntax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chezney Posted November 27, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2018 20 minutes ago, motty said: How do you know you do better with a faster cartridge? Going through clays.. I used to consistently hit more with a cartridge apparently at 1500 than another that was apparently 1200. 1200 was certainly a cheapo cartridge, perhaps this was the difference, but I put it down to speed. I'm not saying speed is all I want, but to be comparable with cartridges I'm currently using would make an easier transition. 24 minutes ago, cookoff013 said: just what is 1450fps you are looking for? its a number, it means almost nothing. do your self a favour, forget trying to get "all" shells at 1450fps. just forget. make a nice decent shell 1250fps / 1300fps, use high quality components, such as good hard italian lead, good wadding and powders at the right burn rate (with the associated data) without being too silly. i would never trust anyone to reload for me, especially when you are pretty much chasing the high end of the speed envelope. with (assumed) very little experience of reloading. while i`m pretty confident you can actually make a shell, its not hard. maybe you shouldnt believe everything on the internet. its full of weirdos. I appreciate what you're saying. When looking through powder manufacturers data it didn't seem like all components were readily available in the UK, hence my asking for peoples experience that I could then try and cross reference with reliable data. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted November 27, 2018 Report Share Posted November 27, 2018 28 minutes ago, Chezney said: I appreciate what you're saying. When looking through powder manufacturers data it didn't seem like all components were readily available in the UK, hence my asking for peoples experience that I could then try and cross reference with reliable data. But the majority of people who reload shotgun cartridges will have already found that high speed kills patterns and costs more with little if any worthwhile gain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diss4111 Posted November 27, 2018 Report Share Posted November 27, 2018 Where are you getting this mythical 1450 FPS figure from? If its off the box then don't believe it for a second. I used to shoot Express World Cup exclusively at everything except wildfowl. They do a 6.5 shot which was awesome for pigeons and game. However after shooting best part of a box over a chrono it was quite clear that you would never get anywhere near their quoted speeds. After that I started using whatever was cheap and there was no impact on my scores. The lead aloowance between 1300 FPS and 1500FPS is not worth mentioning as it is a few inches at 40 yards. I now load a 28 gram load using CSB 5 powder and a fibre wad which does everything I ask of it. I make my own shot and anything hit within my capabilities is coming down. They cost me anywhere between £120 and £150 per 1000 to load depending on where and when i buy my componets Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chezney Posted November 27, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2018 40 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said: But the majority of people who reload shotgun cartridges will have already found that high speed kills patterns and costs more with little if any worthwhile gain. In that case I shall look for data and worry less about speed. Lots of the powder companies data comes with a large choice of case make. Is there a vast difference between makes? Cheddite cases seem by far the most readily available, but then there is a choice of brass length that I couldn't see was differentiated between on these websites - again is there much difference? Diss, out of interest what cases do you use for your 28's? thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diss4111 Posted November 27, 2018 Report Share Posted November 27, 2018 I use whatever 70mm cases I can get but find Cheddite cases load better on my set up. My recipe is 23 grains CSB5, Fiocchi 615 primer, 4mm over powder card, 21mm fibre wad 28 grams shot, 6 point crimp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
figgy Posted November 27, 2018 Report Share Posted November 27, 2018 I used to shoot some thumpy old Velocity carts, they were cheap but worked. If you look at johnnyoftheboys cartridge Velocity tests the Velocity carts were 1400fps yet the so called best black gold's were in the 1200's FPS. Consistency is what you need as you get used to a consistent cartridges speed and patterns much quicker that you can a fast inconsistent cartridge that blows its patterns at times. You been gives some good advice by cookoff013. Try loading some to what he says and surprise yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chezney Posted November 27, 2018 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2018 4 hours ago, figgy said: I used to shoot some thumpy old Velocity carts, they were cheap but worked. If you look at johnnyoftheboys cartridge Velocity tests the Velocity carts were 1400fps yet the so called best black gold's were in the 1200's FPS. Consistency is what you need as you get used to a consistent cartridges speed and patterns much quicker that you can a fast inconsistent cartridge that blows its patterns at times. You been gives some good advice by cookoff013. Try loading some to what he says and surprise yourself. Thank so Figgy, think that's what I'm going to do. I saw johnnyoftheboys tests, very surprising, but interesting. I'm now looking to source some good components, any pointers from anyone would be appreciated! 👍🏽 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diss4111 Posted November 27, 2018 Report Share Posted November 27, 2018 Just now, Chezney said: Thank so Figgy, think that's what I'm going to do. I saw johnnyoftheboys tests, very surprising, but interesting. I'm now looking to source some good components, any pointers from anyone would be appreciated! 👍🏽 Folkestone Engineering supplies, speak to John. He'll help you out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GingerCat Posted November 27, 2018 Report Share Posted November 27, 2018 If it's clays I wouldn't bother. Just choose one that you get on with. The saving isint much. For game the above advice of forgetting about the claimed speed is spot on. There is a post on here with lots of chrono data and the claimed speed is mostly no where near the actual speed. This speed also drops off pretty quickly and the (questionable) benefit over any distance evaporates. Pattern is king, a nice smooth consistent cartridge will do you a lot better than chasing numbers with a wibbly wobbly pattern. That said, each to their own and if it makes you happy crack on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gotgcoalman Posted December 5, 2018 Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 Use a load data sheet for the powder you're using and start close to sub sonic. Make a handfull and pattern them. Keep upping the powder and test until the pattern becomes too sparse to be usable. I know it sounds like a pain in the backside,but you will find a "sweet load" eventually. Speed isn't everything. I found my recipie for subs by testing before using on live stuff. Clean kills out to 50 yards (beyond that I don't bother shouldering the gun) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted December 5, 2018 Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 (edited) On 27/11/2018 at 08:40, cookoff013 said: just what is 1450fps you are looking for? its a number, it means almost nothing. do your self a favour, forget trying to get "all" shells at 1450fps. just forget. make a nice decent shell 1250fps / 1300fps, use high quality components, such as good hard italian lead, good wadding and powders at the right burn rate (with the associated data) without being too silly. i would never trust anyone to reload for me, especially when you are pretty much chasing the high end of the speed envelope. with (assumed) very little experience of reloading. while i`m pretty confident you can actually make a shell, its not hard. maybe you shouldnt believe everything on the internet. its full of weirdos. 100% correct nuff said. Just put it in the middle of the pattern...simple. Edited December 5, 2018 by Walker570 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Albert Posted January 28, 2019 Report Share Posted January 28, 2019 Before you start, make sure you read the literature. Lyman's, "ABC of Shotshell Reloading" is a good one. Make sure you keep to their recipe and stay clear of the maximum powder charge until you are confident. If you are determined to get to your chosen speed then you will need a crono. Be careful though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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