Salmo9 Posted December 3, 2018 Report Share Posted December 3, 2018 Guys - I'm hoping the PW massive might be able to enlighten me with regard to the follow potential situation.. I'm enjoying a long career with a global company and I'm currently being moved within their business. This move has terms which I'm not overjoyed about so I've refused to sign onto this 'appointment' (their words). My response now sits with HR and my mind is racing as to what might be the consequences of my revolt, so to speak. I'm expecting HR's retort to be something along the lines of 'you have until X to sign then we will issue termination of contract', closely followed up with the potential issuing of a revised contract, me thinks.. Perhaps there's something equally sinister that they can and might implement though..?? all answers and scenario responses much appreciated.. Forewarned is forearmed brothers (and sisters too..) Thanks much - Salmo9. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walshie Posted December 3, 2018 Report Share Posted December 3, 2018 I don't know if anyone can give you a definitive answer to that without seeing your initial contract. If you think your job might be on the line, see a solicitor. 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piebob Posted December 3, 2018 Report Share Posted December 3, 2018 As above, but it is normally the case that employers can alter T&Cs as long as they give enough notice. Up to you if you accept them or not. Global companies are unlikely to make any mistakes, but you never know. When you say "moved", I'm assuming you mean it's an internal move, but you will be physically located at the same office / site. You can't be moved, say, to the other side of the country and your employer claiming it's the same job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted December 3, 2018 Report Share Posted December 3, 2018 We had something similar within our family. They wanted to move him to Singapore, the move looked good but his employment with the UK company would end and he would be employed by the Singapore Company with no guarantee of return. Global companies are tricky, I worked for one 5 minutes ago, Piebob said: You can't be moved, say, to the other side of the country and your employer claiming it's the same job. Most contracts these days say something to the effect that the employment is not location specific, so you sign that right away the day you join the company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted December 3, 2018 Report Share Posted December 3, 2018 Hard to say, but as has been said above, terms and conditions can be changed with notice. This happened to me several times within the same international company, and it was a case of like it or lump it, but I'm going back 20 years...things may have changed since. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul1440 Posted December 3, 2018 Report Share Posted December 3, 2018 Is your existing role coming to an end.. If not and you are being forced to do a new role and it would affect your well being. (Stress levels etc) to the point you can't carry on there is possibly a case for constructive dismissal. If your job as it stands is terminated and you are being re deployed you could ask to be made redundant. (Paid off) Unfortunately it's the way the world is going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokersmith Posted December 3, 2018 Report Share Posted December 3, 2018 Depending on what's in your contract, if it's a material change to your working circumstances, then they'll have to offer redundancy as an option. Stay positive and try to find the options where you both win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted December 3, 2018 Report Share Posted December 3, 2018 Salmo9 which union do you belong to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wb123 Posted December 3, 2018 Report Share Posted December 3, 2018 I suspect it will depend what you do and how replaceable you are. My better half had a similar issue but she works in a field with a shortage of suitable candidates for jobs and a high ‘churn rate’ (this I understand to mean people move between the same few companies in a merry go round every few years for more money) so she said no and that was the end of the matter, likely as HR knew she would get another job on the terms she wanted very easily and they still had work they needed her to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mice! Posted December 3, 2018 Report Share Posted December 3, 2018 1 hour ago, Salmo9 said: I'm enjoying a long career with a global company and I'm currently being moved within their business. This move has terms which I'm not overjoyed about so I've refused to sign onto this 'appointment' (their words). My response now sits with HR and my mind is racing as to what might be the consequences of my revolt, so to speak. I'm expecting HR's As Tightchoke says are you in a union? Are you even going to be doing the same job or is it a change in hours or shifts? We are all just numbers these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salmo9 Posted December 3, 2018 Author Report Share Posted December 3, 2018 Thanks Guys, appreciate all the responses.. Looks like I've got an appointment with HR tomorrow. No collective bargaining and no Union now, company never recognised them (EMA) so membership lapsed a good few years ago.. I retire next year and this re-organisation incorporated a nice pay rise, even got letter to confirm it. Unfortunately, some HR jobsworth has since got involved and now they've reneged on the pay increase. Even the company's legal team states this is acceptable practise. So now HR and management want me to sign a letter saying my pay will revert to its previous level.. and I've said Nooo.. Let's see what tomorrow will bring.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted December 3, 2018 Report Share Posted December 3, 2018 Agree nothing, tell them your not comfortable signing anything and you wish to get legal advice before you decide! HR are usually just management stooges! There to get you to comply with what management decree! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nobbyathome Posted December 3, 2018 Report Share Posted December 3, 2018 25 minutes ago, Salmo9 said: Thanks Guys, appreciate all the responses.. Looks like I've got an appointment with HR tomorrow. No collective bargaining and no Union now, company never recognised them (EMA) so membership lapsed a good few years ago.. I retire next year and this re-organisation incorporated a nice pay rise, even got letter to confirm it. Unfortunately, some HR jobsworth has since got involved and now they've reneged on the pay increase. Even the company's legal team states this is acceptable practise. So now HR and management want me to sign a letter saying my pay will revert to its previous level.. and I've said Nooo.. Let's see what tomorrow will bring.. if it is just about the pay rise you have got to think about the facts ie you only have a year and you are retiring is it worth losing the job on the same salary that you are on i do not know the facts of your employment and how you are set moneywise for your retirement personally i would try to haggle with hr and get what you want but if the option s are leave then i would stay just to take there money if redundancy is offered just check out how much you would get and make a balanced desision Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevo_m Posted December 3, 2018 Report Share Posted December 3, 2018 Been through something very similar recently but mine was a change in contract. I stuck to my guns and stated I don’t want the change. They offered me a very tidy amount of tax free cash for them the end the contract. I signed the settlement contract on the Friday, and signed my new contract with a new company the Monday after. They had taken 2 months to negotiate with me which allowed me time to find a new job. Seemless employment, a boot full of cash, and a much better job. You never know, you might get offered enough to tie you over your final year, and be able to retire early. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitebridges Posted December 3, 2018 Report Share Posted December 3, 2018 Salmo9 the OP: You say: I'm enjoying a long career with a global company and I'm currently being moved within their business. Have you been asked to relocate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesj Posted December 3, 2018 Report Share Posted December 3, 2018 many years ago the company I worked for wanted to change the contracts of all the employees at the branch I worked at, they terminated our contracts and said we all had to apply for our own job. When we looked in to it we were told that they could not do it as they had and would have to offer us redundancy or reemploy us on the old contract. I think the jist of it was that they had to offer a way out if we did not like the new contract. As it was every one just found new jobs and walked, I did enjoy ringing the boss and asking what he wanted me to do with the keys to all the vans and workshop! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted December 3, 2018 Report Share Posted December 3, 2018 The company do have the right to make a change to the terms of your contract, you however are not obliged to accept the change. If you do not agree to the change the company do have the right, under appropriate circumstance, to make your exisiting role (not you) redundant if the changes to the contract are material. Such a change may be the need to re-locate as a requirement for the role, i.e. you’re a service engineer on a particular line of business that is moving; if there is a material change in the nature of the role, or a change in the working hours, etc. In any case the employer has to give consideration to the individual performing the role, can they offer a relocation fee or pay for subsistence, can they re-train you, are you willing to work reduced or extended hours, can you job share, etc. If you are the only person doing the role then effectively they make you redundant if you don’t agree to change, if there are multiple people doing a similar or equivalent role then it depends on who else has agreed, or not, to the changes, they may make all, 1 or no roles redundant. Ultimately it is the companies job so they can do what they wish, however they cannot discriminate against you in doing so and they cannot treat you unfairly. Highly likely if you don’t agree to change and they cannot offer you a suitable alternative role then they will ask you to enter into a confidential settlement or compromise agreement. If the do this you have to obtain legal advice before signing, that they pay for, so you get expert guidamce on their approach to the process anyway. Listen to what the HR team say, ask for it in writing to give you opportunity to fully consider what is being said and ask for some time to be able to do that. Make a note of evwrything that has happened so far and the timeline of it happening, if it has been verbal communication up until now then jot that down and, if possible, get them to restate in writing, again so you can fully consider what is being offered/suggested. Don’t be combative tomorrow it won’t benefit you, but be confident to ask questions relative to what is being said. If something is not explained then ask the question again to avoid doubt, if you feel there may be a consequence to a particlar action ask if there will be and what that means, don’t second guess. Ask for a summary of the meeting in writing, if they don’t wish to do that then summarise it in writing from your perspective and send it to them for their comments and observations for the avoidance of any doubt. Best of luck and try not to get too wound up about it all just now, after all nothing has really happened yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd90 Posted December 3, 2018 Report Share Posted December 3, 2018 39 minutes ago, bluesj said: many years ago the company I worked for wanted to change the contracts of all the employees at the branch I worked at, they terminated our contracts and said we all had to apply for our own job. When we looked in to it we were told that they could not do it as they had and would have to offer us redundancy or reemploy us on the old contract. I think the jist of it was that they had to offer a way out if we did not like the new contract. As it was every one just found new jobs and walked, I did enjoy ringing the boss and asking what he wanted me to do with the keys to all the vans and workshop! Shouldn’t have bothered. They should have made arrangements to sort all that before you all left! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesj Posted December 3, 2018 Report Share Posted December 3, 2018 32 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said: Shouldn’t have bothered. They should have made arrangements to sort all that before you all left! They probably would have done if they had known no one was going to turn up for work 😀 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salmo9 Posted December 4, 2018 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2018 Thanks agains guys, especially grrclark's response, very detailed and thoughtful.. I'll be proceeding to my HR meeting this morning with some trepidation buoyed by wise counsel.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted December 4, 2018 Report Share Posted December 4, 2018 Good luck, listen and think before you agree to anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnfromUK Posted December 4, 2018 Report Share Posted December 4, 2018 (edited) Just a thought. You say you are a year from retirement? Something a bit similar happened to me a couple of years ago; I had a common sense and 'frank but friendly' chat with the Company, and in the end I stayed on (under old terms) for a few months to 'phase out and handover' and then took early retirement with a settlement package, leaving on good terms on both sides. I have never regretted it (I was just coming up to 60 then). Please give it some serious thought because you really don't need stress, aggravation and involuntary moves as you come to retirement, and leaving on good friendly terms is always better. Edited December 4, 2018 by JohnfromUK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougy Posted December 4, 2018 Report Share Posted December 4, 2018 We dont like change. Either accept it or move on, its a job at the end of the day, not a life support machine. If your that good at what you do you will soon find another employer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted December 4, 2018 Report Share Posted December 4, 2018 Just now, Dougy said: We dont like change. Either accept it or move on, its a job at the end of the day, not a life support machine. If your that good at what you do you will soon find another employer. Dougy, he only has a year till he retires! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougy Posted December 4, 2018 Report Share Posted December 4, 2018 (edited) Early retirement then. Next. Sorry, ill be a little more sympathetic. Edited December 4, 2018 by Dougy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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