henry d Posted December 5, 2018 Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 Quite glad to hear this but I know one keeper who will be very happy to hear it. Story here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted December 5, 2018 Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 It’s a shame really, but common sense prevails. We’re a small island which is getting smaller all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted December 5, 2018 Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 Looks like a decision of process rather than principle. Maybe the trust can overcome the hurdles and put forward a more reasoned proposition? It would be goood to think that we could move towards things like this but as Scully says we are a small island. I suspect these ideas would require more control of our wild places making them less wild. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jongwe Posted December 5, 2018 Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 4 minutes ago, oowee said: Looks like a decision of process rather than principle. Maybe the trust can overcome the hurdles and put forward a more reasoned proposition? It would be goood to think that we could move towards things like this but as Scully says we are a small island. I suspect these ideas would require more control of our wild places making them less wild. That's what I was thinking too. It's quite a large cat to release into the wild in a place where nobody has never known such animals to be free roaming. There could be some surprising results... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted December 5, 2018 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 Don`t fancy cycling through the keilder forest paths and surprising one of them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jongwe Posted December 5, 2018 Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 Just now, henry d said: Don`t fancy cycling through the keilder forest paths and surprising one of them! lol - one of the "surprising results" I mentioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultrastu Posted December 5, 2018 Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 Pretty sure if i was a upland sheep farmer .just hanging on to making a living. And some city folk .said yeah we want to release a load of predators into the area .id have something negative to say about it. Probably with my large right boot . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjpainter Posted December 5, 2018 Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 17 minutes ago, Jongwe said: That's what I was thinking too. It's quite a large cat to release into the wild in a place where nobody has never known such animals to be free roaming. There could be some surprising results... I agree. I've been following it for a while, as I'm in the conservation industry and it's fun to look over the fence and see what's being done by other people from time to time and this has not been well thought through at all. This line annoyed me in particular:'The application did not include an ecological assessment providing assurances the area was suitable for a reintroduction and did not demonstrate sufficient engagement with landowners or local support.' If it's true, it's just slovenly science. This should have been done one day one! IN THEORY it is perfectly possible to bring lynx back to the UK, but it feels like Lynx UK confused theory with practice and assumed that, because an EU directive says each nation should commit to bringing back lost species, that it was an easy sale and just didn't do the job properly. 1 minute ago, henry d said: Don`t fancy cycling through the keilder forest paths and surprising one of them! No? come on! that'd be amazing. He'd look at you, you'd look at him, then he'd ****** off into the mist. That's something to talk about over breakfast! Although it does highlight how badly Lynx UK has done its job. They've completely failed to get the public on board and convince them of the lack of danger. They have, unfortunately been rather pig-headed about people's genuine concerns and assumed that they're just ignorant nay-sayers. So much bad conservation practice, it's unreal! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted December 5, 2018 Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 Judging from past decisions from our politicians......the truth will be something different within a few days! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jongwe Posted December 5, 2018 Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 2 minutes ago, chrisjpainter said: No? come on! that'd be amazing. He'd look at you, you'd look at him, then he'd ****** off into the mist. That's something to talk about over breakfast! lol - you'd expect it, but there can often be unexpected reactions. I know it is a much larger cat, but I once saw a lion chase down a Datsun 120Y (anyone remember those) going full pelt in reverse. The driver did bring it on themselves as the lion was crossing the road and they sat there revving their engine away as they were in a hurry. Admittedly this is quite possibly a finge case, but at the end of the day, it is fight or flight and you'd better hope for the flight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted December 5, 2018 Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 8 minutes ago, Jongwe said: lol - you'd expect it, but there can often be unexpected reactions. I know it is a much larger cat, but I once saw a lion chase down a Datsun 120Y (anyone remember those) going full pelt in reverse. The driver did bring it on themselves as the lion was crossing the road and they sat there revving their engine away as they were in a hurry. Admittedly this is quite possibly a finge case, but at the end of the day, it is fight or flight and you'd better hope for the flight. I agree...I believe that in certain circumstances a Lynx will attack a human! Especially a child! Not to mention livestock! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjpainter Posted December 5, 2018 Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 1 minute ago, panoma1 said: I agree...I believe that in certain circumstances a Lynx will attack a human! Especially a child! Not to mention livestock! Such as? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted December 5, 2018 Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 3 minutes ago, chrisjpainter said: Such as? How the hell should I know, I'm not a Lynx psychiatrist! But I have experience of being charged at by a Lynx, luckily for me there was a chain link fence between us! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchman Posted December 5, 2018 Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 didnt "they" talk about releasing wolves to control the deer population on a scottish island ..a few years ago ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjpainter Posted December 5, 2018 Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 9 minutes ago, panoma1 said: How the hell should I know, I'm not a Lynx psychiatrist! But I have experience of being charged at by a Lynx, luckily for me there was a chain link fence between us! They're not complicated creatures. Their default setting is move off and hide, as they're brilliant at it. They don't defend territories from other species, like lions, tigers or leopards would, only other lynx. When they've killed, they drag prey off into secluded places, to give them cover and protection to eat. The only time they get aggressive towards anything other than prey is when defending kittens - which they hide in the remotest, most secure parts of their ranges, where there aren't going to be any humans in. Have you ever paid attention to a human walking along a path? Dear life, they're a noisy animal! clothing noise, foot-fall noise, the constant need to vocalise. It's a good thing we don't need to worry about an predator; we'd be useless at avoiding stuff! The truth is in terms of physical dangers to humans, it's minimal - foxes are more of a danger to people than lynx would be. 3 minutes ago, ditchman said: didnt "they" talk about releasing wolves to control the deer population on a scottish island ..a few years ago ? Possibly the dopiest idea any idiot conservationist has come up with. Oh. except releasing bears. that's beyond moronic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oowee Posted December 5, 2018 Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 22 minutes ago, panoma1 said: How the hell should I know, I'm not a Lynx psychiatrist! But I have experience of being charged at by a Lynx, luckily for me there was a chain link fence between us! brilliant 👍 I saw a tiger charge and leap at toddler in similar circumstances (Howlets). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted December 5, 2018 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 1 hour ago, chrisjpainter said: No? come on! that'd be amazing. He'd look at you, you'd look at him, then he'd ****** off into the mist. That's something to talk about over breakfast! If I was out looking for them fair enough, but to be cycling along and coming round the corner to see one I`d probably have a heart attack! Probably find that they get accidentally released like the beavers did round here by Some Not very Helpful group! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted December 5, 2018 Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 10 minutes ago, chrisjpainter said: They're not complicated creatures. Their default setting is move off and hide, as they're brilliant at it. They don't defend territories from other species, like lions, tigers or leopards would, only other lynx. When they've killed, they drag prey off into secluded places, to give them cover and protection to eat. The only time they get aggressive towards anything other than prey is when defending kittens - which they hide in the remotest, most secure parts of their ranges, where there aren't going to be any humans in. Have you ever paid attention to a human walking along a path? Dear life, they're a noisy animal! clothing noise, foot-fall noise, the constant need to vocalise. It's a good thing we don't need to worry about an predator; we'd be useless at avoiding stuff! The truth is in terms of physical dangers to humans, it's minimal - foxes are more of a danger to people than lynx would be. As you seem to be aufait with the neuropsychology of the Lynx.....perhaps you could have a stab at explaining why a big cat that is of "minimal" physical danger to humans, aggressively charged at me, at speed, stopping only because it bounced off the chain link fence not three feet from me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjpainter Posted December 5, 2018 Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 1 minute ago, panoma1 said: As you seem to be aufait with the neuropsychology of the Lynx.....perhaps you could have a stab at explaining why a big cat that is of "minimal" physical danger to humans, aggressively charged at me, at speed, stopping only because it bounced off the chain link fence not three feet from me? Can I ask where was this first? Then yes, I'd be happy to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted December 5, 2018 Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 At a wildlife centre.......I am still in contact with the person who was with me at the time, and witnessed the incident! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultrastu Posted December 5, 2018 Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 You dont work at a wiskers cat food factory by any chance? Still wearing your smelly overalls ? 🐯 Children riding bikes in the woods ? Meals on wheels Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjpainter Posted December 5, 2018 Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 So...it was in a pen? with probably minimal cover (so the visitors can see the animals, avoiding Jurassic Park mistakes), and had people staring at it in the eyes all day, every day? You take a shy, secretive animal and deprive it of its two innate defence mechanisms of running and hiding and then stare at it. The problem with even the best of wildlife parks is that they are driven by visitor numbers and visitors want to see stuff - not just walk past dense vegetation with a sign that says what you might catch a glimpse of - if you're lucky! That works fine for prey animals for whom the fence provides protection from stuff, or stuff like tigers that are top of the food chain whatever environment they're in, but smaller, more secretive predatory animals don't take to it so well. They can still be prey to bigger, more abundant predators, but are deprived of their most effective way of combating them. Or you just looked at it in a funny tone of voice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted December 5, 2018 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 ....and BTW mods, this is ok I presume as it is not a domestic cat thread? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonepark Posted December 5, 2018 Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 1 hour ago, panoma1 said: At a wildlife centre.......I am still in contact with the person who was with me at the time, and witnessed the incident! How would you feel, arbitary thrown in a cell with no distance to hide, a lot of big monkeys staring at you every day making threatening guestures (smiling showing teeth, pointing, staring flapping arms about etc), I am quite sure you would occaisionally show some attempt at expressing your displeasure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
defender Posted December 5, 2018 Report Share Posted December 5, 2018 I watched a documentary on Netflix a few weeks ago called "The Tigers of Scotland" and Lynx reintroduction was mentioned on there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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