The French yellow vest protests

[Hamster]

OK I'm not baiting but really genuinely interested as to why it is that when these kinds of mass protests occur in far flung places we are so willing to accept our governments narrative that it must be because their "regimes" are being run by undemocratic "dictators" but when it happens in Europe we pretend (lie) and say it's just about fuel costs !!? Considering these protests have now been going on for a month at dozens of different French towns isn't anyone a tad suspicious as to why it's receiving so little media coverage ? 

They've even started to blame Russia , 😂 I know, you literally couldn't make it up. Many of their demands appear to make a fair bit of sense and some of it not a million miles off what I've said recently when it comes to the inevitable straws that will one day break even our reserved British backs.  

https://friedemannwo.wordpress.com/2018/12/09/manifesto-the-demands-of-the-yellow-vests/

Edited December 11, 2018 by Hamster

[Rewulf]

Putin will be sat , white fluffy cat on his lap, doing the the whole Muhahahahaa ! thing, everyone knows that 
Hes put Trump in power, single handedly caused Brexit, gassed half the middle east and is according to some people on here, ethnic cleansing Crimea as we speak !

On a more serious note, I think it is the straw that breaks the camels back.
People take so much, and mutter theyre not happy for so long, then BAM ! something triggers them to action.

The biggest problem in France , is the states reaction, heavy handed and very totalitarian at first, it was like pouring petrol on a fire, it goes up in your face, now its much harder to put out.
Macron is a man without any serious credibility now, his position is virtually untenable.

As Ive said in the Brexit thread, take note of what an angry populace can achieve.

 

[Hamster]

If the French desire leaving the EU as well it may hopefully make our Brexit more likely and less (deliberately) troublesome. 

[Rewulf]

21 minutes ago, Hamster said:

If the French desire leaving the EU as well it may hopefully make our Brexit more likely and less (deliberately) troublesome. 

Ive no doubt that theres a healthy element of Euroscepticism within France, and quite likely amongst the yellow vests.
You would think, listening to our media, that we are the only country that courts leaving.

When you see armoured vehicles turn up though to 'disperse' crowds , proudly sporting the EU flag, you have to ask yourselves whether that was an oversight, or deliberate, a shape of things to come ?
Like Ive said Macron, or whoever works his strings, have succeeded in monumental poor judgement and handling of the whole situation.

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/747052/gilet-jaunes-paris-eu-flag-vehicles-riots-yellow-vests-protests

[Teal]

I don't think there is much appetite for them leaving!! Even considering Germany's economic power, I'd reckon the French are probably the most integral part of the EU, part historical part constitutional reasons. The movement has been hijacked by the same anarchist elements that hijack most large scale protests in France. They certainly have genuine issues and grievances though.

If it was the Middle East it would probably have been live fire though. That was the red line, in all countries bar Bahrain and it's Gulf acolytes, which are still our pals 

[Rewulf]

Just now, Teal said:

I don't think there is much appetite for them leaving!! Even considering Germany's economic power, I'd reckon the French are probably the most integral part of the EU, part historical part constitutional reasons. The movement has been hijacked by the same anarchist elements that hijack most large scale protests in France. They certainly have genuine issues and grievances though.

If it was the Middle East it would probably have been live fire though. That was the red line, in all countries bar Bahrain and it's Gulf acolytes, which are still our pals 

I agree, geographically too, they would be crazy at the moment to leave.
I know what you mean by the thuggish element to the protesters too, but some estimates put 150,000 protesters on French streets over the previous 5 weekends, those estimates could easily have been played down too.
Are they all anarchists ?
The 89,000 cops last weekend seems overkill for that amount of rioters as well.

Youre absolutely correct, a lot of ME countries would have just mown them down, sometimes that works and cows them, other times not so much, and regime change happens , usually with a little help from a superpower with vested interest.

I think a line has been crossed with France though, plastic bullets, punishment beatings, concussion grenades and water cannon, have shown the whole of France that maybe the lines between those ME countries and their own, are not as far apart as they thought ?

[guzzicat]

5 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

I agree, geographically too, they would be crazy at the moment to leave.
I know what you mean by the thuggish element to the protesters too, but some estimates put 150,000 protesters on French streets over the previous 5 weekends, those estimates could easily have been played down too.
Are they all anarchists ?
The 89,000 cops last weekend seems overkill for that amount of rioters as well.

Youre absolutely correct, a lot of ME countries would have just mown them down, sometimes that works and cows them, other times not so much, and regime change happens , usually with a little help from a superpower with vested interest.

I think a line has been crossed with France though, plastic bullets, punishment beatings, concussion grenades and water cannon, have shown the whole of France that maybe the lines between those ME countries and their own, are not as far apart as they thought ?

Napoleon " Gave them a whiff of grape") when the bread riots kicked off & the French loved him.

[Rewulf]

Just now, guzzicat said:

Napoleon " Gave them a whiff of grape") when the bread riots kicked off & the French loved him.

Have you seen what Macrons promised them ?!

They arent buying it..yet.
Another big demo planned for this weekend.

[Munzy]

53 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

As Ive said in the Brexit thread, take note of what an angry populace can achieve.

 

This would NEVER happen in the UK if that’s what you mean.

[yod dropper]

Interesting Hamster, I like it.

[Danger-Mouse]

4 minutes ago, Munzy said:

This would NEVER happen in the UK if that’s what you mean.

Brixton riots?

[Scully]

I like a bit of anarchy now and then, keeps politicians on their toes. Seems to be a fair amount of coverage to me, and I'm definitely not pro BBC. 

[prem1234]

The French seem to be far more 'hot headed' than the UK and generally seem to get away with it etc.

Remember them burning animal transporters a few years ago, recently ramming some of the UK fishing fleet and now the riots etc.  There were views that France and even the Netherlands could be up for a referrendum on leaving the EU if different parties got into power which is one of the reason the Dutch PM is seen as an Ally by May.

Edited December 11, 2018 by prem1234

[Rewulf]

24 minutes ago, Munzy said:

This would NEVER happen in the UK if that’s what you mean.

Poll tax riots ? 

Fuel protests , Summer of 81, Duggan, plenty of examples of civil unrest in this country.
No matter how comfortable we get, there is always the option to protest, its when those protests get violent, which , admittedly , doesnt happen that often in this country.
But theres no denying how effective they are in changing a governments mind.

Just now, prem1234 said:

The French seem to be far more 'hot headed' than the UK and generally seem to get away with it etc.

I dont believe they are any more hot headed than us, less so if you want my opinion.
But they know what gets results .

[Hamster]

57 minutes ago, Teal said:

I don't think there is much appetite for them leaving!! Even considering Germany's economic power, I'd reckon the French are probably the most integral part of the EU, part historical part constitutional reasons. The movement has been hijacked by the same anarchist elements that hijack most large scale protests in France. They certainly have genuine issues and grievances though.

If it was the Middle East it would probably have been live fire though. That was the red line, in all countries bar Bahrain and it's Gulf acolytes, which are still our pals 

Errr, if it was the middle east they'd have been masqueraded as friendly rebels and freedom fighters, shortly followed hours later by a liberating dose of cruise missiles. 

Incidentally such protests have taken place in the middle east without heavy handed police response. 

Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable. J F. Kennedy

[Munzy]

17 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Poll tax riots ? 

Fuel protests , Summer of 81, Duggan, plenty of examples of civil unrest in this country.
No matter how comfortable we get, there is always the option to protest, its when those protests get violent, which , admittedly , doesnt happen that often in this country.
But theres no denying how effective they are in changing a governments mind.

I dont believe they are any more hot headed than us, less so if you want my opinion.
But they know what gets results .

Times have changed since the Poll Tax riots or the strikes and picket lines.

The unrest following the shooting of that known scum bag was not politically motivated, it was a bunch of animals having a laugh and looting shops for personal gain.

I don’t believe Britain has the passion to take to the streets in opposition to the government.

[Rewulf]

1 minute ago, Munzy said:

The unrest following the shooting of that known scum bag was not politically motivated, it was a bunch of animals having a laugh and looting shops for personal gain.

All it takes is a catalyst though.
You wouldnt think the French would protest EVERY weekend for a few pence worth of fuel duty would you ?
But its soon escalated due to a heavy response.
Today the students are protesting about tuition fees, are they going to get water cannoned and tear gassed ?

You cant say that we lack the passion, it all depends on what we get passionate about, from then its all about response.

Ive never been on a march or demo, I dont think Ive ever cared about anything enough.
But there are some issues nowdays that I would motivate myself for, one being Brexit, another private firearm ownership.
It all depends on whats important to you.

[Wb123]

Seems typically french, ‘we want everything and somebody else must pay for it’. 

The reason we don’t see that here is enough of the electorate are not that stupid. That said the corbynites do worry me. 

[ratchers]

3 hours ago, Rewulf said:

Have you seen what Macrons promised them ?!

They arent buying it..yet.
Another big demo planned for this weekend.

Macron must have the same magic money tree to pay for things that Corbyn is going to use if he ever gets in to power.

God forbid.

[Rewulf]

30 minutes ago, ratchers said:

Macron must have the same magic money tree to pay for things that Corbyn is going to use if he ever gets in to power.

God forbid.

Aah , but by doing so he's breached all the EU rules on budgets that he was so vocal about last month with Italy.

No , he can't afford them either. Trying to buy yourself out of austerity is one thing.

Trying to placate the mob with trinkets  is another.

Both though are doomed to failure.

[krugerandsmith]

4 hours ago, Munzy said:

This would NEVER happen in the UK if that’s what you mean.

Yes the young people and others will be too busy playing with their mobile phones.

 

[buze]

The french wants wide sweeping changes *unless it affects them*. So the manifesto is very 'green' but the petrol tax that was /supposed/ to be ring fenced for green projects affects *them* directly, therefore, that can't possibly do, let's go and burn cars instead.

It's always like that, Macron is not the first president to arrive with Big Plans, backed by a real election -- he wasn't self-appointed like here; however every single president got his change plan shot down repeatedly until nothing was left and his 'reputation' was in tatter as soon as he tried to implement anything.

Because Hollande ALSO came in with plans, and Sarkosy as well -- and they were shut down by the system's sclerosis and the 'street' -- same people who had elected them. Hollande actually completely gave up in disgust; and Macron now is in the same, useless seat.

It's funny to me that they propose massively hiring civil servants too -- civil servants in france are effectively a caste -- they have their own banks, supermarkets, access to money, holidays, properties, cars and they are paid more as they get older. I grew up with a guy who works for one of the massive state companies, and he's retiring in 2 years at... 52 years of age, with a fat pension -- his job *since the beginning* was to spend the money the company has to pay into a fund called "commité d'entreprise" for employees, so basically his whole life he spent organising the Photo club, the private airfield with gliders and other stressful things.

I'm completely apolitical, I just watch the system from a distance since I've been expat for 20 years, but I think it's sad to see -- I rarely go in france anymore, but I always leave with a mix of disgust and pity.

 

[Rewulf]

3 minutes ago, buze said:

backed by a real election -- he wasn't self-appointed like here

Can I just clear this up, because a few people have done it, and Im certainly no Maybot fan, but..
May , may not have been voted in 'by the people' in 2016 having won a leadership bid, but she was voted in at the 2017 election.
So is in fact, as legitimate as any other PM.

6 minutes ago, buze said:

t's funny to me that they propose massively hiring civil servants too -- civil servants in france are effectively a caste -- they have their own banks, supermarkets, access to money, holidays, properties, cars and they are paid more as they get older. I grew up with a guy who works for one of the massive state companies, and he's retiring in 2 years at... 52 years of age, with a fat pension -- his job *since the beginning* was to spend the money the company has to pay into a fund called "commité d'entreprise" for employees, so basically his whole life he spent organising the Photo club, the private airfield with gliders and other stressful things.

And this is the problem, the working class French get hit hardest by austerity , tax hikes and fuel prices the most, whilst they know full well what they consider the 'elites' to get in salary and perks.
What they are doing is making it known that this behaviour is becoming somewhat tedious.

[Rewulf]

No its not  a joke !

[Lloyd90]

Several shots fired in one French town earlier. 

Terrorist attack or rioters upping their game?