Lord v Posted January 1, 2019 Report Share Posted January 1, 2019 Long story short, bought a 16 guage SxS. Took it out for the first time a few days ago. When slotting the first two cartridges in they seemed... Snug. Still gun closed fine. Two shots later and the gun refuses to break. Had to remove the forend and give the barrels a good wack to get them away from the action. Cartridges firmly jammed in barrels. Managed to push out with a rod. Went again, same story except this time one didn't come out at all. Had to pop the primer out and hoick it out with a screw driver. Called it a day at that point. 😂 I gave the Chambers a good scrub (although they were already mirror clean) and tried slotting the remaining cartridges in. Out of 70 odd 22 either don't fit without pushing them in quite hard and/or are so tight the extractors don't work. I was using two sorts of cartridges, eley VIP and lyvale express. That seems to be alot and something to be avoided... I presume this is down to quite a tightly bored 16 and crappy manufacturing tolerance. Can anyone recommend a decent 16 or am I going to have to start reloading? Is it worth getting the Chambers opened out a bit? But I guess that would mean a reproof. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted January 1, 2019 Report Share Posted January 1, 2019 What's the gun? New or secondhand? Private or retail purchase?.....Would be helpful info! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bert6153 Posted January 1, 2019 Report Share Posted January 1, 2019 What is the chamber length? Cartridge length? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord v Posted January 1, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2019 2nd hand retail purchase. Rfd to Rfd so not close. Old gun, 1941 proof mark Chamber length 2 3/4. Cartridges tried were 65mm and 70mm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted January 1, 2019 Report Share Posted January 1, 2019 (edited) Need more information as above. I have a Yilditz 410 O/U ...brilliant little gun. The chambers on that are tight and I have had maybe three stickers in two seasons. Some cartridges just drop in (Fiocchi) others I have to gently push in (Hull High Pheasant) both excellent cartridges. More info please. An old gun of that age should not be tight certainly. Have you tried Eley ? That is all I shoot in my 100 plus year old Army & Navy 16 gauge and no problems. I think it is likely the cartridges than the gun. Edited January 1, 2019 by Walker570 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord v Posted January 1, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2019 Yup eley vip was one of the brands I tried Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matone Posted January 1, 2019 Report Share Posted January 1, 2019 Firing pins sticking in primers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord v Posted January 1, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, matone said: Firing pins sticking in primers. I don't think so... Firing pins are in good shape and nothing odd on the primers. The cartridges I was testing today the ended up in the reject pile either wouldnt drop in or did with a light push, but then got stuck. (without firing) Others were fine Edited January 1, 2019 by Lord v Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matone Posted January 1, 2019 Report Share Posted January 1, 2019 Try some Hull Cartridge stuff in it. I found a lot of misshapes in12g VIP`s too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted January 1, 2019 Report Share Posted January 1, 2019 (edited) I cannot fathom this one because you have an older gun and I have a 2yr old gun and they both suffer from the same problem. With mine I was thinking that tolerances with CNC etc etc had got that little bit finer, if thats the word. Mine is only VERY occasional and a tap on the ejectors releases the cartridge no problem ....once last season and once this season. It's the need for a push to get some shells to chamber where others just drop in and I have the same experience. It has got now that I run all my shells through the gun before a days shooting just in case. Edited January 1, 2019 by Walker570 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matone Posted January 1, 2019 Report Share Posted January 1, 2019 Some modern cases seen to swell on firing towards the case mouth ,I`ve noticed it with a few makes.I`ve begun sourcing old stock cartridges for the fussy gun that I have and the problem has gone away !El Cheapo modern products ,I`m afraid.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord v Posted January 1, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2019 10 minutes ago, matone said: Try some Hull Cartridge stuff in it. I found a lot of misshapes in12g VIP`s too. Will give those a go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord v Posted January 1, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2019 6 minutes ago, matone said: Some modern cases seen to swell on firing towards the case mouth ,I`ve noticed it with a few makes.I`ve begun sourcing old stock cartridges for the fussy gun that I have and the problem has gone away !El Cheapo modern products ,I`m afraid.... This is definitely part of the problem. Once the cartridges I had fired first got popped out I tried pushing them back in... Much much tighter, barely going back in On some it's the brass head, you can hear it sealing in the chamber and even when you turn it upside down and shake it won't come out. Once that's fires and expanded a bit that's jammed solid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted January 1, 2019 Report Share Posted January 1, 2019 (edited) There is still no worldwide industry standard for any dimensions on ammo or chambers. SAAMI in the USA set out to create a degree of uniformity from 1926 but it was only followed by those of its member companies voluntarily. A similar code existed in Europe ( known as CIP) but didn't always match up with SAAMI and it doesn't include all the countries in Europe. The British gun trade controlled itself, separate from both SAAMI and the European manufacturers. Its not a new problem, you have only got to look at shot sizes to realise its never been consistent. Edited January 1, 2019 by Vince Green Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secret-squirrel Posted January 1, 2019 Report Share Posted January 1, 2019 wabbitbosher aswell as being a gunsmith shoots 16g ..... he’s gotta be worth a message !? 8 hours ago, Lord v said: Long story short, bought a 16 guage SxS. Took it out for the first time a few days ago. When slotting the first two cartridges in they seemed... Snug. Still gun closed fine. Two shots later and the gun refuses to break. Had to remove the forend and give the barrels a good wack to get them away from the action. Cartridges firmly jammed in barrels. Managed to push out with a rod. Went again, same story except this time one didn't come out at all. Had to pop the primer out and hoick it out with a screw driver. Called it a day at that point. 😂 I gave the Chambers a good scrub (although they were already mirror clean) and tried slotting the remaining cartridges in. Out of 70 odd 22 either don't fit without pushing them in quite hard and/or are so tight the extractors don't work. I was using two sorts of cartridges, eley VIP and lyvale express. That seems to be alot and something to be avoided... I presume this is down to quite a tightly bored 16 and crappy manufacturing tolerance. Can anyone recommend a decent 16 or am I going to have to start reloading? Is it worth getting the Chambers opened out a bit? But I guess that would mean a reproof. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord v Posted January 1, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2019 8 hours ago, matone said: Try some Hull Cartridge stuff in it. I found a lot of misshapes in12g VIP`s too. Just recounted the 'failure' rate between the different types. Eley: 15/25 failed Lyvale 13/50 failed. Anyone want to buy some eley cartridges? I was wondering if it would be down to the age of the gun being more designed to be used with paper cartridges than plastic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Green Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 5 hours ago, Lord v said: Just recounted the 'failure' rate between the different types. Eley: 15/25 failed Lyvale 13/50 failed. Anyone want to buy some eley cartridges? I was wondering if it would be down to the age of the gun being more designed to be used with paper cartridges than plastic. It would certainly be interesting to try some old paper cartridges in it to see how they went in. Another though, is it possible the barrels have been sleeved in the past? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matone Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 9 hours ago, Lord v said: Just recounted the 'failure' rate between the different types. Eley: 15/25 failed Lyvale 13/50 failed. Anyone want to buy some eley cartridges? I was wondering if it would be down to the age of the gun being more designed to be used with paper cartridges than plastic. Have the same issues with an 80`s AYA tbh yet none with another of the same age ! High brass is a no no with it ,as are various cases. Using Maionchis ,Eley GP from the 70/80`s with no issue,also Fiocchi PL28. I appreciate that you have a lot less choice in 16 though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord v Posted January 2, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 (edited) I will try a few other carts and see what turns up. Probably Hull, rc and a paper. I may just bite the bullet and start reloading myself. That way if a case doesn't fit I've lost a few pennies on a bit of plastic rather than 50p or so on a full cartridge. Edited January 2, 2019 by Lord v Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord v Posted January 2, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 5 hours ago, Vince Green said: It would certainly be interesting to try some old paper cartridges in it to see how they went in. Another though, is it possible the barrels have been sleeved in the past? If it has its seriously good work with no join I can see. I did wonder if the Chambers had been relined though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandalf Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 Are the chambers pitted at all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neutron619 Posted January 2, 2019 Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 4 hours ago, Lord v said: I may just bite the bullet and start reloading myself. That way if a case doesn't fit I've lost a few pennies on a bit of plastic rather than 50p or so on a full cartridge. Not a bad idea, except that you may find that reloaded cases - new or old - end up being even "fatter" than factory-loaded cases: the problem may get worse rather than better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord v Posted January 2, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2019 3 hours ago, Grandalf said: Are the chambers pitted at all Nope clean as a whistle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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