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Are side by side guns obsolete


Graham M
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It is fair to say that I am a traditionalist. My first gun was a Woodward and when that was sold I bought a new AYA no. 2. Both guns I loved and cared for.

On a whim I picked up a Beretta over and under in a gun shop. I've forgotten what the model was but it had a straight stock and 27'' barrels and I bought it on the spot. I used it for many years until I bought my first Miroku and I have had four of those. Recently there has been an interlude with a semi auto which I enjoyed for a time.

Nowadays if I pick up a side by side it feels very alien in my hands and I know I could never shoot with one again.

 

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On ‎11‎/‎01‎/‎2019 at 11:22, JohnfromUK said:

Most dealers are like that when you try and sell to them - at least he actually looked in the sleeve before opening his trap!  But if you want to buy they are always "very hard to find in that condition, you don't see many about now, going up in value ......." - any old story to sell them!

I have more s/s in my cabinet than o/u (and no pumps, autos or single barrels) - and I rarely use an o/u.  There is no 'technical' reason why anyone can't shoot just as well with a s/s.

I agree to a certain extent, but there is a reason that all of the champions of the clay world use O/Us.

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46 minutes ago, JDog said:

It is fair to say that I am a traditionalist. My first gun was a Woodward and when that was sold I bought a new AYA no. 2. Both guns I loved and cared for.

On a whim I picked up a Beretta over and under in a gun shop. I've forgotten what the model was but it had a straight stock and 27'' barrels and I bought it on the spot. I used it for many years until I bought my first Miroku and I have had four of those. Recently there has been an interlude with a semi auto which I enjoyed for a time.

Nowadays if I pick up a side by side it feels very alien in my hands and I know I could never shoot with one again.

 

I think that that just has to be the saddest thing I've ever read on PW. I would imagine that like myself, every other SxS Club member shares your pain. Still don't despair, as long as you continue to shoot there's still a chance you'll recover.

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My over under is probably my least favourite gun. Trying to find a side by side with a decent length of pull, and a comb height to suit, even before contemplating the fact I shoot left handed is tricky. People were shorter it seems back then.

I borrowed a wonderful aya the other day for a 100 clay shoot. It was fitted with long heavy barrels, a nice high comb, and a weight on a par with my over which I would love to buy for days on the clays but the owner won’t sell. 

Most side by sides seem to be too short in the stock, too low in the comb, and too light weight for most of my use. Though I do have a lovely sidelock for walked up stuff but it was very hard to find and needs a slip on stock extender to fit.

If I could find a left handed matador or something like the above mentioned aya I would be very tempted. 

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12 hours ago, sabel25 said:

Interesting thread

Fashions come and go then return  ie music  dress sense  house designs and so on

For years the 16g was well out of fashion and nearly extinct along with the dinasaurs

Now look what's happening There is a big reasurgance of the 16g along with the cartridge companies following on and Browning flooding the market with their new B525 16g and other companies following on and more companies will bring their models out very shortly ( just keep an eye on Beretta )

I think it was Braithewaites Mid last year that quoted that nearly all guns sold in thier first six months of trading were nearly all 16g shotguns

The sxs will make a similar comeback in the future when all these new   o/u advocates suddenly think their guns are getting heavier and heavier and all look similar to the gun next to them on either side and decide they want something different like a nice English style gun that does'nt weigh like an anchor and looks stylish and traditional like their forfathers used to use and something they were brought up with as a kid shooting with their dad or grandad as i was

I myself sold my last two sxs in the last year to concentrate on my o/u shooting as i kept reverting to my sxs's

I use a 16g o/u amonst other o/u but am now looking at english 16g sxs's as it's inherent in me and cannot get it out of my system

Another observation i have come aware of is these new kids on the block  Although nice to see young kids entering the shooting scene

But they have been on coached clay shoots  ( paid for by dad or grandad and are on the short list for the olympics ) come to driven days full of **** on how good they are and go on to suggest they will wipe ones eyes and are not open to advice then fall flat on their ****

Shooting clay discs does not make one a good shot on live game as has  been proved out on the field time and time again

True, shooting clays well doesn't necessarily mean that one can shoot game well, but it usually does.

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16 minutes ago, motty said:

True, shooting clays well doesn't necessarily mean that one can shoot game well, but it usually does.

It's good practice  swing the gun keeping your eye in, in the close season

But a clay does not mimmick live birds that change direction in flight plus they're accelerating not slowing down

Pigeon shooting is by far better practice

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JDog, it could be something like an S57.

Many Berettas were 'available' with straight hand and double triggers - but they are very scarce as presumably few were made, and the lucky few who have them hold on to them.  I have a Merkel with straight hand and double triggers - which I so much prefer over the ubiquitous pistol grip and single trigger.

 

Edited by JohnfromUK
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4 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

JDog, it could be something like an S57.

Many Berettas were 'available' with straight hand and double triggers - but they are very scarce as presumably few were made, and the lucky few who have them hold on to them.  I have a Merkel with straight hand and double triggers - which I so much prefer over the ubiquitous pistol grip and single trigger.

 

Spot on thank you. That is exactly what it was. I regret selling it.

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13 minutes ago, JDog said:

Spot on thank you. That is exactly what it was. I regret selling it.

I have a model S57 EL (which is much the same but with sideplates).  Unfortunately it also has a pistol grip (which I had 'slimmed') and single trigger (which I have to admit works fine, but I just don't like).  I have 2 sets of barrels for mine, both 28", one set open chokes (skeet whatever that measures) and the other 1/4 and 1/2. and a leather hard case that takes both sets of barrels.  Mine was made circa 1975, and I bought it second hand about 1985 (if I remember rightly for £600, which was a lot then).  It had varnished woodwork which I had stripped when I had the pistol grip slimmed, cast increased and rechequered.

Nice gun, not over heavy and over 30 years has never given any trouble at all.  I shot white winged dove in Costa Rica with it about 1987.

Edited by JohnfromUK
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1 hour ago, Wb123 said:

My over under is probably my least favourite gun. Trying to find a side by side with a decent length of pull, and a comb height to suit, even before contemplating the fact I shoot left handed is tricky. People were shorter it seems back then.

I borrowed a wonderful aya the other day for a 100 clay shoot. It was fitted with long heavy barrels, a nice high comb, and a weight on a par with my over which I would love to buy for days on the clays but the owner won’t sell. 

Most side by sides seem to be too short in the stock, too low in the comb, and too light weight for most of my use. Though I do have a lovely sidelock for walked up stuff but it was very hard to find and needs a slip on stock extender to fit.

If I could find a left handed matador or something like the above mentioned aya I would be very tempted. 

AYA Model 56 maybe? Quite rare these days and expensive as a result. I would like to try one for a round of sporting if I ever got the chance.

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Admittedly I have tried to get used to double triggers, but I’m always caught out, and unless I use a second finger for that second trigger I have to shift my grip; none of the above feels natural to me unfortunately. The AYA I had with semi pistol grip was a distinct improvement as all others I’ve try feel too slim and too short I’m afraid. 

There are some beautiful examples out there however ( I was handling one such example yesterday ) and would suggest they are as subject to all fashion trends as anything else, and have no doubt they will enjoy a resurgence again sometime. Out of fashion perhaps, obsolete, absolutely not. 

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4 minutes ago, MrPhantom said:

AYA Model 56 maybe? Quite rare these days and expensive as a result. I would like to try one for a round of sporting if I ever got the chance.

 

This is my s56e . came with flaky varnish which i sanded and oiled.. will have to get it re chequered, sadly its not a perfect fit as it has to much cast

DSCN2440%5B1%5D.JPG.5fa427bf8fbd52343d55505e4eab3faf.JPG

 

DSCN2440[1].JPG

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7 minutes ago, islandgun said:

 

This is my s56e . came with flaky varnish which i sanded and oiled.. will have to get it re chequered, sadly its not a perfect fit as it has to much cast

DSCN2440%5B1%5D.JPG.5fa427bf8fbd52343d55505e4eab3faf.JPG

 

DSCN2440[1].JPG

Nice.. but I meant Aya 56 side by side. Similar to Aya no.2 but with side clips and heavier. Never seen one in the flesh.

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1 minute ago, MrPhantom said:

Similar to Aya no.2 but with side clips and heavier.

In fact they are more like a heavy duty No 1 - and priced more like a No 1 as well.  Model 53 is more of a 'heavy duty' No 2.  Model 56 is a scarce gun in the UK, model 53s are a little more plentiful.  Model 56 has been around for a long time and used to be a favoured gun on the 'live pigeon' scene I believe.  Most 56's you see in the UK have a pistol grip or 'semi' pistol grip, and often a single trigger.

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5 hours ago, Blackpowder said:

 

 

(3)  Pride of place and oldest is John Dickson round action from 1889 No 1 of a pair  but not built as a pair, rumour has it that No 2 saw service with WW2 home guard and disappeared. The Dickson R/A is a most understated gun , unsurpassed by even London Best.   Superb balance and handling and virtually a self opener they dont come any better in my opiNION.

 

Blackpowder

You lucky lucky man

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4 minutes ago, islandgun said:

Im not having a very good day today..😟

Haha.. nice looking gun all the same!

11 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

In fact they are more like a heavy duty No 1 - and priced more like a No 1 as well.  Model 53 is more of a 'heavy duty' No 2.  Model 56 is a scarce gun in the UK, model 53s are a little more plentiful.  Model 56 has been around for a long time and used to be a favoured gun on the 'live pigeon' scene I believe.  Most 56's you see in the UK have a pistol grip or 'semi' pistol grip, and often a single trigger.

 

2 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

Interesting information thank you, just had a quick look on GT and I can see what you mean. Somewhat out of my price range! Possibly am getting mixed up with model 53. I didn’t realise they had full pistol grip and beavertail forend. For that money I think i would buy a no.1 instead. Still, I can dream... 

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4 minutes ago, MrPhantom said:

Possibly am getting mixed up with model 53.

53 is another very old model.

http://www.a-s-i.co.uk/PRODUCT PORTFOLIO/AYA/AYA Sidelocks FS.htm

I think these were AyA's range before the King family started AyA making 'English' style guns (in effect models 1, 2, 3, 4, Yeoman and Senior) - but that is a very simplistic view.

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2 hours ago, JohnfromUK said:

JDog, it could be something like an S57.

Many Berettas were 'available' with straight hand and double triggers - but they are very scarce as presumably few were made, and the lucky few who have them hold on to them.  I have a Merkel with straight hand and double triggers - which I so much prefer over the ubiquitous pistol grip and single trigger.

 

This was the post I meant to have replied to earlier.. that will teach me to read all posts properly.. whats the old saying better to keep your mouth shut and have people think your a fool, than open it and prove it

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Think we all have to admit even thou I love my s/s that o/u has overtaken them in the field And definitely on the clay range u can blame manufacturers producing machine made o/u for good prices beretta/Brownings etc but there definitely easier for the novice to shoot can’t see it changing anytime soon unfortunately 😔

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2 minutes ago, islandgun said:

This was the post I meant to have replied to earlier.. that will teach me to read all posts properly.. whats the old saying better to keep your mouth shut and have people think your a fool, than open it and prove it

I am in the lucky position of owning an S57 EL, so have the advantage of knowing the shape of the forend (which was the clue for me) and also they are one of the most common Beretta models to find with the comparatively rare straight hand stock.

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