Jump to content
Pigeon Shredder.

Who do you believe.

Recommended Posts

Well there l was trawling a well known gun site when a certain model caught my eye but not a lot of details given, so pressed the email seller button and asked two things.

1, The gun was described as, A hardly used in the advertising, so l asked for a shot count.

2, l also asked for the year of manufacture.

The reply consisted of the following.

1, l wouldn't describe it as hardly used, more like good condition, round count is approximately 1000, but l cannot be sure.

2, l can't see when it was made.

The advertisement has since been changed to read, A good condition, and not, A hardly used, hmm !

And people don't trust car salesman.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Quite. Last week when waiting for paint to dry ( literally ) I thought I’d trawl through the Browning section of GT from beginning to end ( have only got as far as page four so far ) to see what things of interest they had to offer, and found no less than seven Medallist shotguns, all claiming to be Brownings of Belgian origin, with one labelled as being from the classic Browning stable, or something along those lines.

It would appear it’s not just car salesmen. 🙂

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, Scully said:

Quite. Last week when waiting for paint to dry ( literally ) I thought I’d trawl through the Browning section of GT from beginning to end ( have only got as far as page four so far ) to see what things of interest they had to offer, and found no less than seven Medallist shotguns, all claiming to be Brownings of Belgian origin, with one labelled as being from the classic Browning stable, or something along those lines.

It would appear it’s not just car salesmen. 🙂

To be fair they are badged as Browning Medalists. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Lloyd90 said:

To be fair they are badged as Browning Medalists. 

But they’re not I’m afraid. Im pretty certain the word Browning or their logo doesn’t appear anywhere on a Medallist shotgun. They’re werent made by Browning in Belgium, if I recall, they were made by FIAS in Italy, under contract to Brownings importers of the time. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Scully said:

Quite. Last week when waiting for paint to dry ( literally ) I thought I’d trawl through the Browning section of GT from beginning to end ( have only got as far as page four so far ) to see what things of interest they had to offer, and found no less than seven Medallist shotguns, all claiming to be Brownings of Belgian origin, with one labelled as being from the classic Browning stable, or something along those lines.

It would appear it’s not just car salesmen. 🙂

Caveat emptor!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Pigeon Shredder. said:

Well there l was trawling a well known gun site when a certain model caught my eye but not a lot of details given, so pressed the email seller button and asked two things.

1, The gun was described as, A hardly used in the advertising, so l asked for a shot count.

2, l also asked for the year of manufacture.

The reply consisted of the following.

1, l wouldn't describe it as hardly used, more like good condition, round count is approximately 1000, but l cannot be sure.

2, l can't see when it was made.

The advertisement has since been changed to read, A good condition, and not, A hardly used, hmm !

And people don't trust car salesman.

 

 

From my long gun trade experience I was often asked to buy , frequently the seller would describe the gun as  and the reality :-

Mint  , often like Wigglys being well chewed 

Hardly used often meant had been use quite a bit 

Like new , had been used quite a bit  

Good condition meant it still had some original finish and did not rattle like a bucket of bolts .

Strange how these same people would be the first to find fault with any gun they wanted to buy .

 

As to the Medalist debate , is it not high time that magazines and selling sights learnt enough to know that the gun was not made by Browning  , just marketed by the then Browning UK ? 

This really shows a severe lack of knowledge by those who should know better 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Gunman said:

As to the Medalist debate , is it not high time that magazines and selling sights learnt enough to know that the gun was not made by Browning  , just marketed by the then Browning UK ? 

This really shows a severe lack of knowledge by those who should know better 

I genuinely believe they do in fact know better, but the Browning name is more attractive than FIAS, for obvious reasons. Some dealers and individuals are merely pinning the hope of a sale on the unknowledgeable buyer in my opinion, and It smacks of deceit. I emailed two of the dealers with the simple message...'this shotgun is NOT a Browning'; neither of them have replied, which I'm almost certain they would have if my message had been 'I'll take this please'.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I traded in a browning which was in mint condition but had been used plenty by the time I got home it was on GT 

The description was " a real sleeper, fired less than 20 cartridges since new"

Not sure where they got that from as I never said that!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Scully said:

I genuinely believe they do in fact know better, but the Browning name is more attractive than FIAS, for obvious reasons. Some dealers and individuals are merely pinning the hope of a sale on the unknowledgeable buyer in my opinion, and It smacks of deceit. I emailed two of the dealers with the simple message...'this shotgun is NOT a Browning'; neither of them have replied, which I'm almost certain they would have if my message had been 'I'll take this please'.  

How true Made by FIAS as a entry level gun for Browning with the idea of Browning that the young shooter would progress onto a more expensive model made by Browning

Which must've took some by suprise as the Medalist is a typical Italian action low and slim unlike the Brownings deep action and totaly different locking mechanism

And rightly so should not be advertised as a Browning made in Belgium   Then again Brownings should not technicaly be advertised as made in Belgium as they're made in the Miroku factory Japan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Who can tell how many it's fired,that's their get out the lying cheating you can guess the rest.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We must never forget that "MINT" means indistinguishable from new with all original paperwork and packing.

Never yet seen a second hand shotgun which is so.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, sabel25 said:

How true Made by FIAS as a entry level gun for Browning with the idea of Browning that the young shooter would progress onto a more expensive model made by Browning

Which must've took some by suprise as the Medalist is a typical Italian action low and slim unlike the Brownings deep action and totaly different locking mechanism

And rightly so should not be advertised as a Browning made in Belgium   Then again Brownings should not technicaly be advertised as made in Belgium as they're made in the Miroku factory Japan

I picked up on that also on GT, and what you say above is true to an extent. Some have genuinely been made in Belgium, and you can still buy a genuine FN Belgian made Browning, and some are merely 'finished' in Belgium, but yes, I believe the majority are made under license in Japan. 

None of what I've said however, means I think the Medallist is a poor gun, as it isn't a poor gun at all, I just don't believe potential buyers should be duped into the belief they have bought a Browning. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, Scully said:

I picked up on that also on GT, and what you say above is true to an extent. Some have genuinely been made in Belgium, and you can still buy a genuine FN Belgian made Browning, and some are merely 'finished' in Belgium, but yes, I believe the majority are made under license in Japan. 

None of what I've said however, means I think the Medallist is a poor gun, as it isn't a poor gun at all, I just don't believe potential buyers should be duped into the belief they have bought a Browning. 

Yes made in Belgium up to the 70s' then the mainstream from Miroku  now Spain  Portugal and the US although the expensive B2G's by FN Belgium

And the medalist is a good starter gun which has proved itself  but not a Browning

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
53 minutes ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

hello, anyone know what year the Medalist was imported into the UK via Browning ??????

Without checking i would say in the 70's  Initially made by Zoli  but then by FIAS better known as Sabatti all of Italy and bares no resemblance to John Moses Brown design

They intially made alliance with Miroku  of Japan in 1965 for them to produce mainstream Brownings so i would think it would be close after this for guns hitting the markets in the 70's to compete with the Spanish guns of AYA ,  Arrieta .Sarasqueta etc

The early Zoli were over complicated and problematic so they went to FIAS / Sabbati  Had they had gone to B Rizinni it might have been a different outcome as their guns may have been better then the Miroku Brownings and History may have been altered Who knows

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, sabel25 said:

Without checking i would say in the 70's  Initially made by Zoli  but then by FIAS better known as Sabatti all of Italy and bares no resemblance to John Moses Brown design

They intially made alliance with Miroku  of Japan in 1965 for them to produce mainstream Brownings so i would think it would be close after this for guns hitting the markets in the 70's to compete with the Spanish guns of AYA ,  Arrieta .Sarasqueta etc

The early Zoli were over complicated and problematic so they went to FIAS / Sabbati  Had they had gone to B Rizinni it might have been a different outcome as their guns may have been better then the Miroku Brownings and History may have been altered Who knows

hello, thanks Sabel, it seems likely i purchased one of the first Medalist that were imported by Browning, at that time i was a member of the Oxford clay pigeon club in  association with  Venables gun shop in the city, i actually  went to Brownings to view this new imported O/U and it was my main clay gun for many years 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

hello, thanks Sabel, it seems likely i purchased one of the first Medalist that were imported by Browning, at that time i was a member of the Oxford clay pigeon club in  association with  Venables gun shop in the city, i actually  went to Brownings to view this new imported O/U and it was my main clay gun for many years 

A friend has one, and has had it for years. He shoots well with it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, Scully said:

A friend has one, and has had it for years. He shoots well with it.

hello, they were then a reasonable priced multi choke O/U  import by Browning and many still being used today, as happens i know a PW member that has one and he shoots very well with it. 

Edited by oldypigeonpopper

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

hello, they were then a reasonable priced multi choke O/U  import by Browning and many still being used today, as happens i know a PW member that has one and he shoots very well with it. 

There is nothing wrong with them at all, but again, they weren't imported by Browning, but rather commissioned by, made for and imported by, Brownings UK dealership  of the day.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No one is being derogative about the  medalist  itself But the way they are being advertised and dealers playing on the Browning name

William Powell have their Continental range  B Rizinni make the O/U   Italian   Arietta make the SxS Spanish  William Powell  enscribe their name on them but do not hide the fact by calling them their Continetal range

But if you were to believe Brownings references  then all Brownings are made in Belgium   Not

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From experience, distance buying on quoted descriptions I can hazard a guess that there are as many gun dealers with eyesight and speech and memory impediments as car dealers?

The best one so far was an AA S200 that was shipped to my RFD. It was sent over pressure, also the bolt blew out backwards due to having had the ball bearing replaced with a cobbled up set screw. The mag didn't cycle either.

What a cracker. If you are on here you know who you are.

Luckily my RFD being very experienced with these things was not hurt and all of the problems were cured as he investigated each fault as he was not willing to recreate the problems as found, so I kept the gun.

Also bought a lovely Lanber de luxe with all of the original paperwork and case, unfortunately bought as RH turned out LH. Refunded very professionally with full apology.

Almost forgot the  CZ .222. returned as the bolt was assembled incorrectly.

Hey Ho away you go.

Forgot to add all adverts on Gun Trader.

 

 

 

Edited by old man

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, DUNKS said:

We must never forget that "MINT" means indistinguishable from new with all original paperwork and packing.

Never yet seen a second hand shotgun which is so.

So here’s my 10p worth on buying second hand .......

This little yildiz came up for sale and when I spoke to the guy he Described as “like new mint condition”  but had no pictures !!! Hmmmmm

Also was over £200 cheaper than new .. I was a bit suspicious ...

Anyway when I got there this is what I found ...

Spoke to the original buyer literally 25 cartridges since new !! 

There are still some good people around !! 

SS

9930EF79-ADE2-4708-9B19-4544439963BA.jpeg

Edited by secret-squirrel

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Scully said:

There is nothing wrong with them at all, but again, they weren't imported by Browning, but rather commissioned by, made for and imported by, Brownings UK dealership  of the day.

hello, thanks for that, i did go and look at the Medalist in the original Browning HQ, at the time i knew one of the REPs in the Company,,anyway it is a very long time ago yet we still see these guns being sold and used so they could not have been that bad for a early multi choke O/U

1 hour ago, secret-squirrel said:

So here’s my 10p worth on buying second hand .......

This little yildiz came up for sale and when I spoke to the guy he Described as “like new mint condition”  but had no pictures !!! Hmmmmm

Also was over £200 cheaper than new .. I was a bit suspicious ...

Anyway when I got there this is what I found ...

Spoke to the original buyer literally 25 cartridges since new !! 

There are still some good people around !! 

SS

9930EF79-ADE2-4708-9B19-4544439963BA.jpeg

hello, have you tried your Yildiz out yet, i was thinking to get one as there suppose to be ok for steel cartridges and see these are quite a bit cheaper than lead at JCs

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

hello, thanks for that, i did go and look at the Medalist in the original Browning HQ, at the time i knew one of the REPs in the Company,,anyway it is a very long time ago yet we still see these guns being sold and used so they could not have been that bad for a early multi choke O/U

hello, have you tried your Yildiz out yet, i was thinking to get one as there suppose to be ok for steel cartridges and see these are quite a bit cheaper than lead at JCs

Hi bud.

Brought this for the mises she has only put about 150 x 21g hulls threw it so far but she is over the moon with it . Very slightly too short for her so going to get a slightly thicker rubber pad on the back of it but so far faultless. I have probably put about 50 normal 28g cartridges threw it myself and it feels good .... it’s a light gun and is very short for me so it is a bit punchy but the new butt pad and light cartridges will sort that .obviously It is a budget gun but I don’t think you can tell really from a couple of metres away and to be honest I couldn’t care less what anyone else thinks 😂😂 

Im sure this won’t help in your quest at all 😂 but all I can say is try and find a second hand one for sale at a clay ground and take it for a spin and make your own decision .

No amount of asking people online and other people’s opinions will help . I hope that doesn’t read ars*y or blunt it’s not written in that way at all 👍🙂

SS

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, secret-squirrel said:

Hi bud.

Brought this for the mises she has only put about 150 x 21g hulls threw it so far but she is over the moon with it . Very slightly too short for her so going to get a slightly thicker rubber pad on the back of it but so far faultless. I have probably put about 50 normal 28g cartridges threw it myself and it feels good .... it’s a light gun and is very short for me so it is a bit punchy but the new butt pad and light cartridges will sort that .obviously It is a budget gun but I don’t think you can tell really from a couple of metres away and to be honest I couldn’t care less what anyone else thinks 😂😂 

Im sure this won’t help in your quest at all 😂 but all I can say is try and find a second hand one for sale at a clay ground and take it for a spin and make your own decision .

No amount of asking people online and other people’s opinions will help . I hope that doesn’t read ars*y or blunt it’s not written in that way at all 👍🙂

SS

hello, no and appreciate your reply , there are not many  on gun trader and the RRP for the SPZ ME 12 guage  is put at £525 by the importer yet some RFDs are asking more for S/H, have all ready inquired at my usual RFD and quoted £495 or £395 for a non ejector, cheers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...