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USA Shutdown


ditchman
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55 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said:

Pretty sure the Berlin Wall kept people apart for a hell of a lot of time ... 

Was that 2000 miles long and in the middle of a desert ? 

46 minutes ago, Walker570 said:

Our Socialist Snowflakes seem to ignore such Lloyd90. 

They are still smarting big time because Trumpy won and didn't let the Clinton Clan back in the Whitehouse.

 

Errr, have always said Trump was ten times better than Clinton. 

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16 minutes ago, KB1 said:

To be honest, what I'm suggesting is that the wool you accuse Walker570 of wearing over his eyes, is actually the problem that you appear to be suffering from......   

I dont know if you viewed the video I posted above, but it's worth a look; if only to see how someone not blinded by propaganda views the situation in the USA.

We all have different views, and I respect that, but can't help feeling, when reading Snowflake posts, that virtue-signalling is at the forefront🤔

Are you really suggesting that the opinion of someone on YouTube is a counter to the evidential information posted by Chris to disprove the baseless rhetoric of Walker?

Who are the virtue signalling snowflakes just out of interest?

Similar question to Walker, who are the socialist snowflakes?

Edited by grrclark
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5 minutes ago, grrclark said:

Are you really suggesting that the opinion of someone on YouTube is a counter to the evidential information posted by Chris to disprove the baseless rhetoric of Walker?

Who are the virtue signalling snowflakes just out of interest?

Similar question to Walker, who are the socialist snowflakes?

The fact that you have to ask those questions makes me smile😀

Anyway, I promise this is the last video, but please, please, please have a listen. It makes more sense than the NYT.  Jump to 7:50 if you just want a simple take on the Wall rhetoric.

Just now, KB1 said:

The fact that you have to ask those questions makes me smile😀

Anyway, I promise this is the last video, but please, please, please have a listen. It makes more sense than the NYT.  Jump to 7:50 if you just want a simple take on the Wall rhetoric.

 

 

Edited by KB1
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Not got the guts to answer the question so just avoid it?

As i said before I genuinely don’t care about the wall. What does frustrate me is when people perpetuate ignorance and stupidity by posting misleading information, baseless statements and out and out lies.

Some great examples in this thread that Chris skillfully demonstrated to be nothing other than utter drivel and tripe.

Sadly it seems that actually trying to apply some rigour in posting information that can be substantiated, i.e. factual information, gets dismissed as someone being a snowflake and virtue signalling.

Sad that in the minds of some the truth is seen as virtue signalling, but perhaps it’s easier for those who are clearly devoid of an ability to comprehend and reach a reasoned outcome to throw rocks at the thinking person, that’s much easier than actually thinking and trying to see beyond their barrier of wilful ignorance.

Edited by grrclark
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6 minutes ago, grrclark said:

Not got the guts to answer the question so just avoid it?

That sounds like something from a 5 year old😁

As i said before I genuinely don’t care about the wall. What does frustrate me is when people perpetuate ignorance and stupidity by posting misleading information, baseless statements and out and out lies.

Frustrating oneself is best avoided.

Some great examples in this thread that Chris skillfully demonstrated to be nothing other than utter drivel and tripe.

The old one liner 'get a room' comes to mind, but I wont say it.....

Sadly it seems that actually trying to apply some rigour in posting information that can be substantiated, i.e. factual information, gets dismissed as someone being a snowflake and virtue signalling.

Sad that in the minds of some the truth is seen as virtue signalling, but perhaps it’s easier for those who are clearly devoid of an ability to comprehend and reach a reasoned outcome to throw rocks at the thinking person, that’s much easier than actually thinking and trying to see beyond their barrier of wilful ignorance.

You should'nt take it all too seriously.... One man's factual information is another man's disinformation.  As for rock throwing, is it OK if it's only you that gets to throw them?  

I'm comfortable enough with my achived lifestyle not to be wounded by your assumption "clearly devoid of an ability to comprehend" , as I tend to think when all that's to hand is ad hominem, then volumes are spoken🤔

 

 

Just now, KB1 said:

 

PS. Did you watch the video?😘

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1 hour ago, KB1 said:

To be honest, what I'm suggesting is that the wool you accuse Walker570 of wearing over his eyes, is actually the problem that you appear to be suffering from......   

I dont know if you viewed the video I posted above, but it's worth a look; if only to see how someone not blinded by propaganda views the situation in the USA.

We all have different views, and I respect that, but can't help feeling, when reading Snowflake posts, that virtue-signalling is at the forefront🤔

I have watched the video. Unfortunately, picked apart, it really doesn't help the argument.

To say that he'll never vote for the Dems ever again is so short sighted. Party dynamics change, party policies change. To show such intransigence is to commit yourself to blind acceptance, regardless of policies. I've voted Tory all my life in the generals and locals. would I refuse to vote for anyone else because of that? No, and nor should anyone. Surely we should vote for the people who best reflect our opinions/beliefs - even if that means changing your voting habits. To do anything else would be to deliberately vote against your own beliefs...

He's right about the myth of the switch. But it's difficult to say he's any kind of voice of reason, or that he's not blinded by propaganda. For example, he starts with a complaint against public schools, which is reasonable to a point, but it's not an argument to not vote democrat - it should be an argument to not vote, the list of complaints he gives would be as equally true for a GOP government as a Dem one, so you can't use it as a reason to refuse to vote for one in favour of the other. Public schools struggle because they're underfunded, teaching standards are poor and there's chronic ill discipline. That's true regardless of who holds the White House or Congress. 

And he makes a good case for the ideological instabilities of lots of deprived cities where black people live below the poverty line having democratic governors. But he should probably be a little more accurate with his facts too...Martin Luther King refused to openly endorse any party and was quick to point out that both  parties have failed black people:
 

'The ***** has been betrayed by both the Republican and the Democratic party. The Democrats have betrayed him by capitulating to the whims and caprices of the Southern Dixiecrats. The Republicans have betrayed him by capitulating to the blatant hypocrisy of reactionary right wing northern Republicans. And this coalition ...defeats every bill and every move towards liberal legislation in the area of civil rights.' (The Papers of Martin Luther King, Jr: Symbol of the Movement, January 1957 – December 1958)

He also admitted that he'd always voted Dem in the past (when quizzed before the Eisenhower election) and later, publicly urged people to vote against GOP candidate Barry Goldwater. His personal papers also indicate he voted for but never publicly endorsed JFK. 

 

And yes, the Dems have made good hay out of the poverty of black people - but so has the GOP and certainly  the right wing Northern Republicans that King warned about have hardly helped in convincing black voters that the GOP has their interests at heart. The fact is that this video should be a case of a plague on both their houses, but instead he's picked one side, extolled its virtues and damned the other. He's just another chap with a reasonable argument, which like so many others on both sides, has got plenty of holes in it, much like both sides.

Also typifies why I'm so glad I don't live in America, thus don't have to vote for either of the parties!

Edit: Pigeonwatch has censored Martin Luther King! direct quote should read 'Ne.gro' Apologies to the Mods for dodging the censor filter, but it's Dr King saying it, so hopefully that makes it okay?

Edited by chrisjpainter
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5 minutes ago, chrisjpainter said:

I have watched the video. Unfortunately, picked apart, it really doesn't help the argument.

To say that he'll never vote for the Dems ever again is so short sighted. Party dynamics change, party policies change. To show such intransigence is to commit yourself to blind acceptance, regardless of policies. I've voted Tory all my life in the generals and locals. would I refuse to vote for anyone else because of that? No, and nor should anyone. Surely we should vote for the people who best reflect our opinions/beliefs - even if that means changing your voting habits. To do anything else would be to deliberately vote against your own beliefs...

He's right about the myth of the switch. But it's difficult to say he's any kind of voice of reason, or that he's not blinded by propaganda. For example, he starts with a complaint against public schools, which is reasonable to a point, but it's not an argument to not vote democrat - it should be an argument to not vote, the list of complaints he gives would be as equally true for a GOP government as a Dem one, so you can't use it as a reason to refuse to vote for one in favour of the other. Public schools struggle because they're underfunded, teaching standards are poor and there's chronic ill discipline. That's true regardless of who holds the White House or Congress. 

And he makes a good case for the ideological instabilities of lots of deprived cities where black people live below the poverty line having democratic governors. But he should probably be a little more accurate with his facts too...Martin Luther King refused to openly endorse any party and was quick to point out that both  parties have failed black people:
 

'The ***** has been betrayed by both the Republican and the Democratic party. The Democrats have betrayed him by capitulating to the whims and caprices of the Southern Dixiecrats. The Republicans have betrayed him by capitulating to the blatant hypocrisy of reactionary right wing northern Republicans. And this coalition ...defeats every bill and every move towards liberal legislation in the area of civil rights.' (The Papers of Martin Luther King, Jr: Symbol of the Movement, January 1957 – December 1958)

He also admitted that he'd always voted Dem in the past (when quizzed before the Eisenhower election) and later, publicly urged people to vote against GOP candidate Barry Goldwater. His personal papers also indicate he voted for but never publicly endorsed JFK. 

 

And yes, the Dems have made good hay out of the poverty of black people - but so has the GOP and certainly  the right wing Northern Republicans that King warned about have hardly helped in convincing black voters that the GOP has their interests at heart. The fact is that is the video should be a case of a plague on both their houses, but instead he's picked one side, extolled its virtues and damned the other. He's just another chap with a reasonable argument, which like so many others on both sides, has got plenty of holes in it, much like both sides.

Also typifies why I'm so glad I don't live in America, thus don't have to vote for either of the parties!

 

 

 

 

A fair and balanced view. Thanks for taking the time:good:

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1 hour ago, Hamster said:

Did you proof read that ? 

In the meaning that, in a highly urbanised area there’s more people going about their day etc. 

 

A bunch of people in the desert trying to climb the wall will be easier to spot. 

 

Add in ghe thermal / motion detectors, border guards etc ... 

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10 hours ago, Lloyd90 said:

In the meaning that, in a highly urbanised area there’s more people going about their day etc. 

 

A bunch of people in the desert trying to climb the wall will be easier to spot. 

 

Add in ghe thermal / motion detectors, border guards etc ... 

I think you'll find a 2000 mile long wall will be infinitely harder to spot people around, the Berlin wall was tiny in comparison and could easily be policed using raised sentry posts every few hundred yards 😏  not convinced they plan to do that with the proposed wall. Sometimes you'll convince yourself of anything if the will to believe it is there. 😑

Edited by Hamster
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15 hours ago, Lloyd90 said:

In the meaning that, in a highly urbanised area there’s more people going about their day etc. 

 

A bunch of people in the desert trying to climb the wall will be easier to spot. 

 

Add in ghe thermal / motion detectors, border guards etc ... 

Along 2000 miles of border? This is the problem. a Wall might cost $5bn. but then you've got the huge cost of watching it. Otherwise, as Mick says... Wall meet tunnel. 

staggering waste of money on something that won't work.

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13 minutes ago, Newbie to this said:

So what is the solution? 

The solution is helping them want to stay in their own country, not many PW people will accept or want to believe it but pouring money down the drain (or into a wall) is not the answer, it will only make certain contractors richer but in twenty years we will still have the same issues. Ultimately the poor, war torn and economic migrants will always be drawn to the "safety" that advanced economies offer, therefore it is not a huge leap of logic to see that helping lesser countries develop their infrastructure and industries will make staying put much more appealing, imagine if one tenth of the money that's gone up in smoke in say Afghanistan had been spent on building them homes, factories, roads, schools and education. 

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Saw a video the other day that I thought could sort it out. said to give twice as much as trump wants for his wall to the border force etc to be over seen but a group made up of representatives all involved in the border but no politicians. The money can be spent on what ever the group feel is best but has to be spent with in a set amount of time!

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