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brushy

FIrst time fac holders

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    What’s people’s views on first time fac holders 

     

    what guns should you be allowed?

    i believe some county firearms departments are becoming a joke 

    chap on a shot today has just been granted an fac for 17 , 22 ,243 

    its his first fac 

    he was told 4 weeks ago by the firearms department he wouldn’t get a 17 , or 243 but would get a .22 by the FAO 

     

    then the head keeper wrote a letter on his behalf 

    quote saying “how safe he was “

    The head keeper  has never seen him shoot

    I have and it’s not good 

    shouldn’t the FAO need more proof 

     

     

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    How's the FEO supposed to get more proof? He can't go out with every applicant to check. He must have had good reason to acquire those calibres. 

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    Personally I’ve seen guys shooting.243’s that shouldn’t have a license after 5 years.

     

    its awkward because I need a 223 for munty . I can’t use a hmr for it so what’s the option ??? 

     

    Im lucky I had training of a few experienced guys (rip mick)  and I learnt fast. 

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    Just don’t sit right with me that some one with no experience can get that many guns 

     

    i worked from 

     

    .22

    223 which I had a mentor condition 

    .243 

    B

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    As said by Walshie, the FEO has to use his own judgement but there is nothing to stop him making his own local enquiries.  In the old days when the local rural bobby (I was one) signed off the applications , he knew everybody on his patch, but those days have gone.    The applicant can only shoot one rifle at a time and to be honest the 22RF is probably the most dangerous and every likelyhood that would be the one they would approve.

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    I’ve got 6 different fac not once has the landowner been asked if I have permission 

     

     

    Edited by brushy

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    Each case should be evaluated on the merits of each applicant in my opinion, and the only criteria they have to satisfy is 'good reason'. 

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    As said in a separate thread, I have taken out supposed 'educated' stalkers, who couldn't wait to tell me they had a DSC2 and it didn't take me long to come to the conclusion they shouldn't have a rifle either. Had one take a shot at a deer through a gap in a slingy wood into broad daylight the nearest background probably two miles away and running alongside the wood was a footpath.  Unfortunately even within the firearms/shotgun fraternity there are the good the bad and the ugly.

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    2 hours ago, brushy said:

    What’s people’s views on first time fac holders 

     

    what guns should you be allowed?

    i believe some county firearms departments are becoming a joke 

    chap on a shot today has just been granted an fac for 17 , 22 ,243 

    its his first fac 

    he was told 4 weeks ago by the firearms department he wouldn’t get a 17 , or 243 but would get a .22 by the FAO 

     

    then the head keeper wrote a letter on his behalf 

    quote saying “how safe he was “

    The head keeper  has never seen him shoot

    I have and it’s not good 

    shouldn’t the FAO need more proof 

     

     

    Anything untoward that may happen then it will backlash onto the keeper as acting as a referee

    I was talking to a keeper in Scotland on one of our shoot days and this cropped up in conversation  whereby he had signed  persons applications as referee judging them as capable persons

    But one or two turned bad  not sure if domestic or confrontation in public but he ended up with the police at his door late at night which he managed to sort out But he now says that is the finnish and will no longer endorse anyone and i would'nt care he is a lovely bloke and easy going and good at his job

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    I applied for FAC after having SGC for 18 months (during which time I hadn’t endangered anyone) and was granted 22rf/17hmr(at fao suggestion) and 243 with Fox + aolq straight away due to having good reason.  If people are negligent and dangerous then they don’t need a FAC to cause problems, I think that the FAO can suss the situation out by the interview (my char lasted about an hour) and their DD in speaking to landowners etc.

    Having no previous experience of firearms doesn’t make people dangerous as having experience doesn’t make muppets safe.

    However, it could be a good idea for any new shooter of FAC, SGC or air (when that is licenced) to need to pass a cerficate of general competancy

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    To be fair if you have good reason and the FEO is happy why shouldn't you get a .243 on initial grant. If for example you thing is deer stalking and you have been out either on paid stalks or you stalk with another stalker getting a .22lr or .17HMR isn't really going to do you a lot of good.

    As has been pointed out above having experience/ qualifications is no guarantee of safety in any walk of life. Sometimes shooting can be a bit "I had to do my time before I got X so you should too"!

     

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    Apart from the vagaries of the current system, and the arbitrary treatment of applicants it seems to work. Despite the perceived risks we do not have many, if any incidents of people getting shot. We have to separate possibility with probability. There are many possible risks but the probability based on reported cases is negligible. 

    System is hard enough now let's not put any more hurdles in the way of our sport.

    Edited by oowee

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    If he has good reason to own a centrefire then he has the legal right to do so, as long as he is not a disqualified person. 

     

    Mind your own business. 

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    As long as all there checks are done, people be able to buy whatever firearms they want that's allowed under the law.  

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    2 hours ago, Lloyd90 said:

    If he has good reason to own a centrefire then he has the legal right to do so, as long as he is not a disqualified person. 

     

    Mind your own business. 

    My feelings exactly.

    The FAC vetting process has never been more stringent, if an applicant has passed these checks, including an interview and has demonstrated good reason why on earth shouldn't he get the rifles he needs.

    However, if the OP is so fearful of how dangerous this chap is, I presume he has brought his fears to the attention of his Chief Constable.

     

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    2 hours ago, Lloyd90 said:

    If he has good reason to own a centrefire then he has the legal right to do so, as long as he is not a disqualified person. 

     

    Mind your own business. 

     

     

    +1

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    17 hours ago, brushy said:

    What’s people’s views on first time fac holders 

     

    what guns should you be allowed?

    i believe some county firearms departments are becoming a joke 

    chap on a shot today has just been granted an fac for 17 , 22 ,243 

    its his first fac 

    he was told 4 weeks ago by the firearms department he wouldn’t get a 17 , or 243 but would get a .22 by the FAO 

     

    then the head keeper wrote a letter on his behalf 

    quote saying “how safe he was “

    The head keeper  has never seen him shoot

    I have and it’s not good 

    shouldn’t the FAO need more proof 

     

     

    I assume that you have raised your concerns with the licensing department then? Or is complaining on an internet forum about the apparent injustice of him being granted sufficient to allay any fears you have about public safety?

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    I find it amusing how some seem to deem it necessary for others to pass a competency test, not having done one themselves. My FEO hadn't seen my nephew shoot, nor any of his mates ( nor me come to that )  before deeming them safe to hold S1. Despite shooting having one of the best safety records of UK sports one can indulge in, it never fails to amaze me when tighter regulations are called for from shooters themselves. 

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    No different to a driving licence,  there's plenty out there with one that shouldn't and can't drive despite passing an ever more stringent test and theory exam. 

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    What is the difference between a.22 and a 243 when it comes to safety none what so ever.  Its the same when land gets cleared for a 223 but not for a 243 a load of ballcocks if he got Deer to shoot and the keeper is happy no problem he got  good reason to have them

    Edited by Rim Fire

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