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Would You Say Anything ? If So What ? .


marsh man
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Yesterday we had what was the estate's owner day for his friends , we all had a lovely day with the weather being kind and the shooting was as good as it gets . I was picking up along with two others and it was one of those days where the dogs found most of what they were sent for and the bag was on par of what we expected , we started a bit late and seem to running a bit late for the rest of the day although with the days getting a bit longer it wasn't to much of a concern .

We started the sixth and last drive around 3.30pm and time the beaters came through this large wood the light was beginning to fail , I was standing behind the guns on number 7 and 8 pegs , one old boy was a very good shot and is normally a perfect gentleman , the other gun wasn't that good a shot and failed to connect , the old boy shot five cock birds that all looked dead or didn't look like they would run to far .

Anyway the whistle went and the drive was over so I started to make my way towards the two guns , I was getting close and my dog was already bringing a cock bird back when both of them walked off towards the guns wagon without saying a word about how many he got or where roughly they were , as it turned out I found the five fairly quick and there wasn't any runners .

I thought it would have been the decent thing to do was just to let me know what he got and roughly where they were considering the light at the time was getting bad .

So back to the title , Could you , or would you say anything and if so , what ?

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13 minutes ago, ditchman said:

been there seen it got the tee shirts...........................there are a lot of arrogant ***** about.............as i was picking up i shut my mouth

I agree and that was exactly what I done , said nothing to nobody , where I go on another shoot where the guns are a bit more down to earth I don't think that would had happened as we all help each other and do our best to retrieve the game as quick as possible which seem the norm this day and age . 

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Happened to me recently when a young lad ( a keeper ) pricked a bird and simply wandered off when the horn sounded. It was obvious to me it had a leg down so I went to look for it and my dog retrieved it. 

He had stood at his peg looking at his phone throughout the drive, and only popped it back in his pocket as the beaters got near. 

He was  eating a sandwich when I returned with his bird and I merely held it up in front of him before plopping it in the back of the pick up. He didn’t utter even a thanks, too busy on his phone seemingly. 

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To MMs original post personally no I would not of said anything.....it would of caused bad feeling and the gun(s) would of tried to defend it when the majority of decent people connected with the sport would of known they were in the wrong and ignorant !!!

In my eyes it's one team whether I'm a gun or not and its about respect and respecting the game that's shot. If I've shot something I want to know it's picked up and going to be eaten, a lot of the time I'm one of last guns back as I'm with the pickers-up making sure my birds are found.

Edited by prem1234
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This happens  a lot on the shoot I beat for its just rude and uncalled for I'm giving my Saturday up to help out and make there day possible a lot of guns need to realise that! A lot of beaters and pickers up don't get paid it's done for the love and enjoyment of the sport & working there dogs etc people with a poor attitude to helping pickers up and beaters roughly locate downed birds will eventually ruin there own shoot as people will just not turn up or find another shoot to help out on . 

We had are beaters day on Saturday the guns were beating this time three birds had been shot two went into a duck pit & one in the woods . They walked around the duck pit but wouldn't send there own dogs in for the birds & the guns beating in the woods didn't pick the third bird either just walked past it luckily one of the lads shooting on the peg had his partner & there dogs with them so she went to pick the down birds it just put a bit of a spoiler on the day. They also knocked one drive through & then decided that they were going to have 11s at 10am after one drive!

Edited by Stephen-H
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this is more and more common, guns just walking away without marking or letting you know what they have shot and expect you to be psychic. For this reason I always carry a pair of pheasants and a partridge in my bag, that way when (if) they ask if I picked all their birds I will pull them out my bag and say 'yes sir'

One shoot I was picking up on I stood about 100 yards behind the line. One guy shot 3 boxes of cartridges and never touched a feather. After the drive and we were back on the gun bus he asked if I had picked all his birds. The answer was the same 'yes sir'

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On a similar vein, I was bemoaning the Beaters lot on one shoot I work at recently and the owners daughter in law overheard me and said "you don't have to come along."

Guess what, if we have a poor Beaters Day this season I will cut down the number of days I bother to go. The shoot relies on people who have retired and are available.

All the wet days will result in a no show and I will not use so many of my precious holidays and if they really think the **** poor £25 is worth it they are living on another planet!

 

It costs nothing to be polite, respectful and to engage in conversation, it works both ways!

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2 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

On a similar vein, I was bemoaning the Beaters lot on one shoot I work at recently and the owners daughter in law overheard me and said "you don't have to come along."

Guess what, if we have a poor Beaters Day this season I will cut down the number of days I bother to go. The shoot relies on people who have retired and are available.

All the wet days will result in a no show and I will not use so many of my precious holidays and if they really think the **** poor £25 is worth it they are living on another planet!

 

It costs nothing to be polite, respectful and to engage in conversation, it works both ways!

A similar thing happens where I beat. Every year at beaters day half the guns won't turn up to beat. So we end up just having a rough shoot and a walked up day. They don't seem to get it that a good team of happy beaters means better sport for them during the year. 

This year the keeper said that the guns could shoot if they want to make up the numbers as only a few of the beaters this year want to shoot. So they will be out in droves.

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1 hour ago, JDog said:

 Scully, that was a perfect opportunity to put this lad right. You should have taken it.

Yes, you’re right JDog, I should have. It was my nephews shoot and I didn’t want to cause bad feeling as I was a guest gun and was standing on the peg next to the young keeper. I have told my nephew however. 

I doubt I’ll be attending next time; there are a lot of greedy young guns ( not all ) on this shoot who don’t know ( or don’t care ) how to treat guests or quarry, including a couple who should know better. 

I was amazed at how many were glued to their phones prior, during and immediately after a drive. Incredible. 

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Where those guns polite the rest of the day?

Was going to say sounds a late drive and 6 sounds a lot in a day , but mibee quite short drives with little complicated beating/blanking in?

Mibbe just in a hurry to get in for the meal and possibly told by shoot captain/owner to get a move on after drive as meal is ready?

End of day its there day and possibly paid big money for it, doesn't really bother me either way nowadays, infact i often try to stay away from guns as much as possible

 

To be honest its no big deal really and quite often happens, but often by time i get to the gun line all the guns are away anyway, depending which drive/where i stand i might be so far back i never get to the gun line. Generally the beaters sweep throu the gun line most drives so there dogs get a retrieve too and we come in after to give a final sweep but usually everyone away by then.

 

Diss i did try the hen/cock partridge trick but soon got sick of it, bad enough carry the birds i do pick without carryig extra birds. Some of the cocks this year are heavier than ever

Althou a gun did come back on sat to watch me pick a runnig cock 1/2 way up a real steep banking, took a bit of hanling to get my dog onto it but got there eventually. Pressure was on thou

 

Stephen H

Easy solved just threaten to strike on next shoot day or stop for 11's after 1 drive like they do. The problem is ur ltting the keeper down thou

Do seem a funny lot not to send a dog for a retrieve, doesn't sound like a shoot i'd fancy going to.

Must admit i've long thought beaters/pickers up need to stand together and campign for better pay, why should we take days of work to subsidise someone elses shooting, no other business can expect to get a team of labourers/staff for a meal or 30 quid for a whole days work (esp if running dogs so feeding and training them all year) possibly even using ur own 4x4.

If we all went to work instead we could afford to take a days shooting. Many shoots just toake the complete **** in my opinion.

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This season on a let day the team of guns = miserable as sin not a word to the beaters or the picker uppers and at lunch the keeper came and sat with us and not the guns plenty of banter and laughter from our lot and not a peep from the guns . This made for a poor atmosphere and has been mentioned all thru the season compering that team with all the others that have shot since . So yes in my eyes it does matter cos it helps to bond a team . Personally I speak to a gun and if he or she doesn't respond then I will make no more effort to be civil to them.

AS BEEN POINTED OUT MOST DON'T DO IT FOR THE MONEY.A THANKYOU GOES A LONG WAY.

Just to add on our walk and stand if you think you have pricked a bird and you havn't a dog you go with the person who has a dog to look for YOUR bird or at the least you offer to help.  

Edited by scutt
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Some valid points above and politeness costs nothing but can pay huge dividends

All guns should point out where their shot birds are and normaly do or when asked

When beating i always ask the guns if they've had a good day and they're always polite and thankyou for a good day normaly but there are times when certain guns will not speak to beaters

What people have to or should remember is that without the beaters you do not have a shoot

 

In answer to the initial question  I would've had a quiet word with the keeper  This could be addressed at the pre shoot do's and do'nts of the day and politely say to the guns if they could help the team by saying how many birds they shot and roughly where they landed along with kindly pick your empties up and so on

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19 hours ago, marsh man said:

Yesterday we had what was the estate's owner day for his friends , we all had a lovely day with the weather being kind and the shooting was as good as it gets . I was picking up along with two others and it was one of those days where the dogs found most of what they were sent for and the bag was on par of what we expected , we started a bit late and seem to running a bit late for the rest of the day although with the days getting a bit longer it wasn't to much of a concern .

We started the sixth and last drive around 3.30pm and time the beaters came through this large wood the light was beginning to fail , I was standing behind the guns on number 7 and 8 pegs , one old boy was a very good shot and is normally a perfect gentleman , the other gun wasn't that good a shot and failed to connect , the old boy shot five cock birds that all looked dead or didn't look like they would run to far .

Anyway the whistle went and the drive was over so I started to make my way towards the two guns , I was getting close and my dog was already bringing a cock bird back when both of them walked off towards the guns wagon without saying a word about how many he got or where roughly they were , as it turned out I found the five fairly quick and there wasn't any runners .

I thought it would have been the decent thing to do was just to let me know what he got and roughly where they were considering the light at the time was getting bad .

So back to the title , Could you , or would you say anything and if so , what ?

Another way of looking at it, maybe the old boy was confident the birds weren't going anywhere and new you were in a good position to see the birds?

I certainly think guns should be pointing out where their birds are down.

Happy to say the guest guns and paying guns have been friendly and chatty where we are this year, but its a smaller shoot. As for the Syndicate members what a bunch 😂😂😂 been a fun season.

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Some varied and interesting replies , at the end of the day it didn't warrant to be made into a to bigger issue and with it being the bosses day it wouldn't had gone any further than the keeper if I had mentioned it to him, as the person concerned have been coming for a number of years and is a decent fella and is on first term names with one or two of us who are long term members of the shoot.

Maybe I am to enthusiastic and like to see everyone taking part in the same mode , sadly this is not the case with the variety of guns we get with some not having a clue what goes into the day , one pet hate is mobile phones , as an instance , we had a drive just before dinner where we bring in a long strip of game cover from both ends and meet somewhere in the middle depending on the strength and direction of the wind , the drive had started with the odd shot going off along the line , the chap in front of me then shot a cracking Pheasant that was dead in the air and came crashing in the wood where I was standing , another Pheasant came out of the cover and was getting well up by the time it went wide of the gun in front , it would have made a lovely shot if his next door neighbour had been concentrating on what he was here for instead of talking on his phone with the gun broke and the barrels resting on his shoe , his neighbour shouted OVER but by then the Pheasant was laughing all the way back to the woods.

Scotslad......... THANKS for your reply ....... I admit it was getting a bit late to start the sixth drive , but this time of the year we have no problems getting six drives in , last Monday we had a Woodcock day on the same place and had eight drives and still finished well before 4 pm , where I am going this Saturday it is possible to do seven drives like we did last Saturday week , we had done four drives and it was only just gone twelve so we done a block of Maize that was close to the farm where we have lunch , then after dinner done our normal two drives , with the days getting longer now and some shoots only got a few days left , a lot of them will now do there best to get a extra drive in , tonight was a clear night and it was still light at 4.30 pm. 

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22 hours ago, JDog said:

They weren’t Gentlemen in my book.

100% agree.  I never leave my peg until I have connected with at least one picker up and very often they will come over and tell me they picked a bird i didn't think I hit.....happened with four birds on a VERY windy day this season, screaming birds and a following wind took them 200yrds behind before they folded.  That was very much appreciated.  I was always brought up to make sure the pickers up knew hwere I had dropped a bird or birds ....I sometimes hit at least one.  I don't care how much every other gun rushes off to the gun bus, until I am happy every bird is accounted for I don't move.   Unfortunately see it so often these days.....it's like guns asking should they wear a tie or tweeds etc.   We will soon all be turning up in track suit bottoms and hoodies.

Edited by Walker570
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8 hours ago, Stephen-H said:

This happens  a lot on the shoot I beat for its just rude and uncalled for I'm giving my Saturday up to help out and make there day possible a lot of guns need to realise that! A lot of beaters and pickers up don't get paid it's done for the love and enjoyment of the sport & working there dogs etc people with a poor attitude to helping pickers up and beaters roughly locate downed birds will eventually ruin there own shoot as people will just not turn up or find another shoot to help out on . 

We had are beaters day on Saturday the guns were beating this time three birds had been shot two went into a duck pit & one in the woods . They walked around the duck pit but wouldn't send there own dogs in for the birds & the guns beating in the woods didn't pick the third bird either just walked past it luckily one of the lads shooting on the peg had his partner & there dogs with them so she went to pick the down birds it just put a bit of a spoiler on the day. They also knocked one drive through & then decided that they were going to have 11s at 10am after one drive!

They don't have to realise anything, unless your willing to say to them they'll just carry on with their own self importance.

 

Vote with your feet is the best option. 

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8 hours ago, Diss4111 said:

A similar thing happens where I beat. Every year at beaters day half the guns won't turn up to beat. So we end up just having a rough shoot and a walked up day. They don't seem to get it that a good team of happy beaters means better sport for them during the year. 

This year the keeper said that the guns could shoot if they want to make up the numbers as only a few of the beaters this year want to shoot. So they will be out in droves.

Have a word with the keeper, it's his job to out on your beaters day and him to sort out beaters for you all.  I wouldn't go anymore to a shoot like that. Where I go you don't get cash but are part of the team fed and watered and on one the odd day as a guest. Means more to me than a few Bob and treated like dirt at the end of a shoot.

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3 minutes ago, islandgun said:

I hate bad manners and really hate people that think their better than others, so yes i would have said something.. 

I am not saying this ( gentleman ) thinks he is better than others because that's not the impression he give me .

 Mind you I would say that wont I ☺️ , when I used to put the guns on there pegs and generally looked after there needs throughout the day like getting them a packet of fags if they ran out , gave them some of my Lucozade if they had a bit of a hang over , a couple of my strong pain killers if they had aches and pains and so on , well this old boy wasn't feeling to good and his boy rang the office to say could I keep an eye on him as he was in two minds in turning up for the day , anyway when I got the message  I went over and asked how he was feeling and he didn't seem that bad apart from feeling a bit weak , when we left the hall and got to the first drive I took his gun and cartridge bag across to his peg and done the same when the drive was over , this I carried on for the remaining drives and he got through the day without feeling any worse , when we got back I carried his gear back to the car and after the hand shake there was a £10 note embedded in the palm of my hand , so maybe he isn't so bad after all:good:   ,

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8 hours ago, Diss4111 said:

A similar thing happens where I beat. Every year at beaters day half the guns won't turn up to beat. So we end up just having a rough shoot and a walked up day. They don't seem to get it that a good team of happy beaters means better sport for them during the year. 

This year the keeper said that the guns could shoot if they want to make up the numbers as only a few of the beaters this year want to shoot. So they will be out in droves.

This is the main reason I stopped beating at a local shoot. Beaters day was one of no guns returning the favour, which meant the beaters had to stand one beat one, which nobody minded as it was still an opportunity to shoot, but one year the guns turned up but instead of beating, stood behind all those beaters young and old and shot the birds they missed. Not only was it humiliating for those beaters who weren't particularly good shots, but it also meant some of them were actually beating yet again for the guns, on keepers day, none of whom took a turn to beat! I was fuming. Have never been back. 

Nobody expects any guns to turn up on the present shoot I beat, on keepers day as the shooting days are bought on a commercial basis. We will beat one stand one which none of us mind, then back to the pub to get fed and make a mess of ourselves. 🍺🍺🍺🍺

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36 minutes ago, Lloyd90 said:

They don't have to realise anything, unless your willing to say to them they'll just carry on with their own self importance.

 

Vote with your feet is the best option. 

Think that is the general thought in are beaters group chat on Facebook I think a lot of us will be leaving for somewhere new in the coming season! This is only my first season at this shoot while I really enjoy the day with all the beaters I've met at this shoot over the season I think we are just fed up with the guns and the way the day is organised the gamekeepers hands are pretty much tied as the landowner/shoot captain simply will not let her run the day as she would like to & insist on running drives wrong & putting guns where they aren't needed and does not want anyone to back gun the woods as we knock them through! 

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