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Motion to Ban Lead Shot


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14 minutes ago, johnnytheboy said:

This is inevitable but we have to consider that no matter what we think we should fight against it. This become a problem for people who cannot afford steel proofed guns, wether it be financially or because they only go out one day a year and it’s not viable. Most of these people are the life blood of country sports.

So we need to consider how we work towards helping these people, how best we advise them about guns to buy or facilitate them into a steel proofed gun. 

i don't think it's anything to do with people who cannot afford steel proofed guns??,lead is a better shot than steel!

steel can be used in guns which are not steel proofed

Edited by andrewluke
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13 hours ago, panoma1 said:

A couple of years ago the 'Lead Ammunition Group' which was set up by the government recommended lead shot be banned....the government rejected their report as biased! The Ban regarding wildfowl was bought in some years ago!

Really? I don't recall there ever being a recomendation from the LAG to ban lead shot. I thought it was exactly the opposite.

 

However this cannot be stressed highly enough that if the current lead ban is largely ignored by an awful lot of game shoots around the country then it WILL happen. In Denmark there is a total lead ban and they have adapted and use steel for nearly everything. Gamebore do quite a range of steel shot cartridges sold there (in fibre shot cups) but they cannot be sold here due to the ridiculous CIP regulations

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56 minutes ago, Diss4111 said:

Really? I don't recall there ever being a recomendation from the LAG to ban lead shot. I thought it was exactly the opposite.

 

However this cannot be stressed highly enough that if the current lead ban is largely ignored by an awful lot of game shoots around the country then it WILL happen. In Denmark there is a total lead ban and they have adapted and use steel for nearly everything. Gamebore do quite a range of steel shot cartridges sold there (in fibre shot cups) but they cannot be sold here due to the ridiculous CIP regulations

Are you really sure about that?

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15 hours ago, Westley said:

Worrying, especially as steel shot requires plastic wads  ?

No. They do require shotcups, however, and presently only Gamebore make a biodegradable shotcup steel load - and even then in only one (three inch load). They could make other loads, but at present there is no market demand, it seems. 

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Have you seen who signed the paper  Labour  and  green party

With all that is going on with  (  i'll not mention the B word ) Is this not just a rouse to stick thorns into the Tory government  Or that they think they can just slip it through as they think the Government will be distracted with all thats going on

Where do they  stop  A large number of big houses and churches the like have lead roof coverings where rainfall runoff  runs into waterways

Large amount of various species of birds take thier water from the gutters etc from such

Have'nt heard of any lead poison reports 

Perhaps they should concentrate on the plastic polution issue as this is by far the greater threat to the enviroment  where they have factual evidence

Edited by sabel25
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2 hours ago, Diss4111 said:

Really? I don't recall there ever being a recomendation from the LAG to ban lead shot. I thought it was exactly the opposite.

 

However this cannot be stressed highly enough that if the current lead ban is largely ignored by an awful lot of game shoots around the country then it WILL happen. In Denmark there is a total lead ban and they have adapted and use steel for nearly everything. Gamebore do quite a range of steel shot cartridges sold there (in fibre shot cups) but they cannot be sold here due to the ridiculous CIP regulations

Why are game shoots singled out.....again? The current lead ban could well be ignored by individual wildfowlers, or anyone at all if they chose to do so; after all, who is going to know? 

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11 minutes ago, Scully said:

Why are game shoots singled out.....again? The current lead ban could well be ignored by individual wildfowlers, or anyone at all if they chose to do so; after all, who is going to know? 

This is from personal experience, I am a wildfowler first and foremost and on several game shoots I have been on there has been duck drives and all guns were told not to worry about non toxic and use whatever they have brought.

One estate near me that shoot 1000's of ducks never insist on it.

 

But yes you are quite right it could be a wildfowler ignoring the ban, I'm sure it does happen. 

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7 minutes ago, Diss4111 said:

This is from personal experience, I am a wildfowler first and foremost and on several game shoots I have been on there has been duck drives and all guns were told not to worry about non toxic and use whatever they have brought.

One estate near me that shoot 1000's of ducks never insist on it.

 

 

So what have you done about it? 

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3 hours ago, Diss4111 said:

Really? I don't recall there ever being a recomendation from the LAG to ban lead shot. I thought it was exactly the opposite.

 

However this cannot be stressed highly enough that if the current lead ban is largely ignored by an awful lot of game shoots around the country then it WILL happen. In Denmark there is a total lead ban and they have adapted and use steel for nearly everything. Gamebore do quite a range of steel shot cartridges sold there (in fibre shot cups) but they cannot be sold here due to the ridiculous CIP regulations

With no response as yet to my previous question, I'm undecided, but are you saying that we owe John Swift and his cohorts an apology?

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Just now, wymberley said:

With no response as yet to my previous question, I'm undecided, but are you saying that we owe John Swift and his cohorts an apology?

Not john Swift no, but as far as I am aware there was never a recomendation to ban lead altogether. I'm certain if there was the government would never have voted against it. I know BASC's stance was without scientific evidence they were strongly opposed to any kind of further restrictions.

Just now, andrewluke said:

aren't they breaking the law??

Yes, but its up to them. Personally I use non toxic wherever I have to. If other people don't then it's their look out. I am not the police, I can voice my opinion which as anyone who knows me will tell you I'm not afraid to do but as for stopping them shooting? No I cannot.

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17 minutes ago, Diss4111 said:

What can I do? It's up to them what they do. i abide by the law and use non toxic where I have to. And many places where I don't.

I just assumed that as it is against the law you would have reported it. After all, you’ve just accused game shoots in general, on a public forum, as being guilty of this. 

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Just now, Scully said:

I just assumed that as it is against the law you would have reported it. After all, you’ve just accused game shoots in general, on a public forum, as being guilty of this. 

reported it to who? the police won't be interested. Defra aren't going to be bothered. Do you report everyone you see speeding? or jumping a red light? Maybe even someone as blatant as to park on a double yellow line? Nope thought not.

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1 hour ago, Diss4111 said:

reported it to who? the police won't be interested. Defra aren't going to be bothered. Do you report everyone you see speeding? or jumping a red light? Maybe even someone as blatant as to park on a double yellow line? Nope thought not.

can't understand why you are moaning about it then??

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1 hour ago, Diss4111 said:

reported it to who? the police won't be interested. Defra aren't going to be bothered. Do you report everyone you see speeding? or jumping a red light? Maybe even someone as blatant as to park on a double yellow line? Nope thought not.

I assumed ( wrongly it now appears ) that as you’re the one who made an issue of claiming that an awful lot of game shooters are ignoring the law, you may have done something about it. Obviously not. Makes me wonder why, that’s all. 

What makes you think the police won’t be interested? You could report the shoot or the estate, or inform the media; I’m pretty sure the latter would be very interested, but perhaps it’s not in your best interest to do so, which makes me wonder why you’ve mentioned it on here. 

As an aside, I reported someone local last year for constantly being on his mobile phone whilst driving, and the police did react. 

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4 hours ago, stagboy said:

No. They do require shotcups, however, and presently only Gamebore make a biodegradable shotcup steel load - and even then in only one (three inch load). They could make other loads, but at present there is no market demand, it seems. 

Mirage clever also

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7 minutes ago, Scully said:

I assumed ( wrongly it now appears ) that as you’re the one who made an issue of claiming that an awful lot of game shooters are ignoring the law, you may have done something about it. Obviously not. Makes me wonder why, that’s all. 

What makes you think the police won’t be interested? You could report the shoot or the estate, or inform the media; I’m pretty sure the latter would be very interested, but perhaps it’s not in your best interest to do so, which makes me wonder why you’ve mentioned it on here. 

As an aside, I reported someone local last year for constantly being on his mobile phone whilst driving, and the police did react. 

So the statistics that 70% of ducks shot that went to game dealers were shot with lead means nothing? Wildfowlers rarely if ever send their birds to dealers. If they do then they aren't proper fowlers in my book.

Inform the media? Are you completely stupid? That would be like driving to the police station after a skinful of beer. As far as I am concerned if people want to break the law then its up to them. When lead is banned, and yes it will happen it won't make any difference to me. All my guns are steel proofed and I can use whatever I like. All the shooters whio have been flouting the law because they are too tight to buy bismuth yet won't use steel through their pair of Hollands will be crying about their old english guns.

Of course the police will react to a motoring offence, the motorist is, and always will be easy prey for the old bill. Now a game shoot where the rich and famous go they aren't even going to enter the gate.

4 hours ago, stagboy said:

No. They do require shotcups, however, and presently only Gamebore make a biodegradable shotcup steel load - and even then in only one (three inch load). They could make other loads, but at present there is no market demand, it seems. 

They make a range, but due to CIP rules they cannot sell them in the UK

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I'm suspicious of the 70% figure, are we sure the 70% of ducks containing lead were shot in the UK not pricked abroad?

Who is supplying these duck to game dealers and in what quantity?

surely it would be easy for Game Dealers to identify who supplied them.

"When lead is banned, and yes it will happen it won't make any difference to me. All my guns are steel proofed and I can use whatever I like. All the shooters whio have been flouting the law because they are too tight to buy bismuth yet won't use steel through their pair of Hollands will be crying about their old english guns. "

Cheers Mate, care to chip in when I have to replace my £150 AYA? This motion isn't about the poor ducks it's about bashing people who own Holland&Hollands.

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2 minutes ago, Dibble said:

I'm suspicious of the 70% figure, are we sure the 70% of ducks containing lead were shot in the UK not pricked abroad?

Who is supplying these duck to game dealers and in what quantity?

surely it would be easy for Game Dealers to identify who supplied them.

"When lead is banned, and yes it will happen it won't make any difference to me. All my guns are steel proofed and I can use whatever I like. All the shooters whio have been flouting the law because they are too tight to buy bismuth yet won't use steel through their pair of Hollands will be crying about their old english guns. "

Cheers Mate, care to chip in when I have to replace my £150 AYA? This motion isn't about the poor ducks it's about bashing people who own Holland&Hollands.

Of course, they were all imported from shoots abroad who only ***** birds, no one in this country would ever do anything wrong. Game dealers aren't going to bite the hand that feeds them?

 

No, it's up to you to ensure your guns are capable to use whatever ammunition you are required to.

The poor ducks don't know what they are being shot with. it's the people who ignore the law who will be the eventual death of lead. The english law is stupid. The scottish way should be adopted here. At present I can't shoot a duck with lead but on the same peg I can shoot a pheasant. The shot ends up in the same place regardless of quarry. 

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