Bazooka Joe Posted January 17, 2019 Report Share Posted January 17, 2019 21 minutes ago, Salopian said: Bazooka Joe said , Don't worry Scully, BASC will be all over like a rash, you never know professional legal advice might be taken.... I commented that Bazooka's medication is not working , if he believes that. Arr got ya... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesj Posted January 17, 2019 Report Share Posted January 17, 2019 10 hours ago, stuartc44 said: Doesn't it say they want to ban lead bullets also? Are there any alternatives for rifles? If not and it somehow got through, are they thinking at least people could only own shotguns, a step towards no guns at all? Short answer yes. A lot of manufacturers do a solid copper bullet of some sort, you can also get polymer hand gun bullets not sure if they do them for rifles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabel25 Posted January 17, 2019 Report Share Posted January 17, 2019 18 minutes ago, bluesj said: Short answer yes. A lot of manufacturers do a solid copper bullet of some sort, you can also get polymer hand gun bullets not sure if they do them for rifles German scientists have been developing and testing non lead bullets and been comparing them to lead They concluded that at normal stalk distance they were on a par except for large game Deer and boar who had a longer run off period after being shot and lying down and dying The Danish say there is longer run off with non toxic compared to lead at normal to longer distance and apparantly they are coming into Scotland on trial Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Joe Posted January 17, 2019 Report Share Posted January 17, 2019 Quote The Danish say there is longer run off with non toxic compared to lead at normal to longer distance and apparantly they are coming into Scotland on trial Was there not talk that on Forestry Commission Land they were compulsory.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluesj Posted January 17, 2019 Report Share Posted January 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, sabel25 said: German scientists have been developing and testing non lead bullets and been comparing them to lead They concluded that at normal stalk distance they were on a par except for large game Deer and boar who had a longer run off period after being shot and lying down and dying The Danish say there is longer run off with non toxic compared to lead at normal to longer distance and apparantly they are coming into Scotland on trial From what I have seen the copper rifle bullets don't expand as well as lead. The copper and polymer hand gun bullets don't expand at all but then they aren't designed to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabel25 Posted January 17, 2019 Report Share Posted January 17, 2019 5 minutes ago, Bazooka Joe said: Was there not talk that on Forestry Commission Land they were compulsory.. Not that i've heard of up this end anyway I live near an Army range where live firing is common so will non toxic apply to the forces now?? 2 minutes ago, bluesj said: From what I have seen the copper rifle bullets don't expand as well as lead. The copper and polymer hand gun bullets don't expand at all but then they aren't designed to The report i was reading They did'nt mention what non toxic componenets they were using Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnytheboy Posted January 17, 2019 Report Share Posted January 17, 2019 21 hours ago, andrewluke said: i don't think it's anything to do with people who cannot afford steel proofed guns??,lead is a better shot than steel! steel can be used in guns which are not steel proofed It ultimately as if the folk who can’t afford steel proofed guns move away from the sport then it’s only the folk who can afford fancy guns that’s involved in the sport. Then like fox hunting it become a class vote! And the public got against us on any topic! We need to resist all restrictions on our sport especially lead ban for the reasons stated in my first post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yickdaz Posted January 17, 2019 Report Share Posted January 17, 2019 5 hours ago, Diss4111 said: Of course, they were all imported from shoots abroad who only ***** birds, no one in this country would ever do anything wrong. Game dealers aren't going to bite the hand that feeds them? No, it's up to you to ensure your guns are capable to use whatever ammunition you are required to. The poor ducks don't know what they are being shot with. it's the people who ignore the law who will be the eventual death of lead. The english law is stupid. The scottish way should be adopted here. At present I can't shoot a duck with lead but on the same peg I can shoot a pheasant. The shot ends up in the same place regardless of quarry. and that sums it up perfectly the stupidity of it all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClemFandango Posted January 17, 2019 Report Share Posted January 17, 2019 2 hours ago, sabel25 said: Not that i've heard of up this end anyway I live near an Army range where live firing is common so will non toxic apply to the forces now?? The report i was reading They did'nt mention what non toxic componenets they were using FC England have been using non lead rifle ammo since April 2016. As far as I am aware it performs just as well as lead ammunition in all respects, some of it was found to be an improvement in terms of carcass damage. Personally I think a lead ban is inevitable within the next five years. Non lead shotgun ammo has come on in leaps and bounds since the ban for wildfowl and wetlands etc, I don't think it's something to fear. That's not to say I agree with it. I just don't think it's the problem some make it out to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PPP Posted January 17, 2019 Report Share Posted January 17, 2019 10 hours ago, Diss4111 said: This is from personal experience, I am a wildfowler first and foremost and on several game shoots I have been on there has been duck drives and all guns were told not to worry about non toxic and use whatever they have brought. One estate near me that shoot 1000's of ducks never insist on it. But yes you are quite right it could be a wildfowler ignoring the ban, I'm sure it does happen. Is that B P? I’ve shot there any they were on message about non toxic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diss4111 Posted January 18, 2019 Report Share Posted January 18, 2019 16 hours ago, PPP said: Is that B P? I’ve shot there any they were on message about non toxic I think you know where I mean then? Large Park estate near tiptree? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grrclark Posted January 18, 2019 Report Share Posted January 18, 2019 Thankfully early day motions are normally just an opportunity for an MP to say to their constituents that they have raised the issue in parliament, a one sentence statement is read out and that it, however if enough MPs back the motion it may be debated. This is highly likely to be kicked into the long grass very quickly, but it would do no harm for the shooting organisations to have standard letter templates available should any member, or person with a vested interest, wish to make their feelings know to those MPs who supported the motion.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted January 18, 2019 Report Share Posted January 18, 2019 21 hours ago, johnnytheboy said: It ultimately as if the folk who can’t afford steel proofed guns move away from the sport then it’s only the folk who can afford fancy guns that’s involved in the sport. Then like fox hunting it become a class vote! And the public got against us on any topic! We need to resist all restrictions on our sport especially lead ban for the reasons stated in my first post. You don't need a steel proofed shotgun to use steel shot cartridges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted January 18, 2019 Report Share Posted January 18, 2019 14 minutes ago, motty said: You don't need a steel proofed shotgun to use steel shot cartridges. If you refer to HP steel cartridges..............You don't need brakes on a car to drive one of those either!😰 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted January 18, 2019 Report Share Posted January 18, 2019 2 minutes ago, panoma1 said: If you refer to HP steel cartridges..............You don't need brakes on a car to drive one of those either!😰 Yes, I am referring to hp steel. I shall be taking one of non - steel proofed 10s out tomorrow and putting some hefty hp steel through it (with a bit of luck). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnytheboy Posted January 18, 2019 Report Share Posted January 18, 2019 54 minutes ago, motty said: You don't need a steel proofed shotgun to use steel shot cartridges. Hi motty, been ages since we haven’t seen eye to eye 😂 happy new year for 2019 btw, I’ll post up some new chrono results soon so we can have a wee tussle then 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted January 18, 2019 Report Share Posted January 18, 2019 24 minutes ago, motty said: Yes, I am referring to hp steel. I shall be taking one of non - steel proofed 10s out tomorrow and putting some hefty hp steel through it (with a bit of luck). Yes but would you risk putting HP steel through a Damascus barrelled 1890' English hammergun? Even if it had been nitro proved? That would be advocating putting steel shot through a non steel proofed gun too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PPP Posted January 18, 2019 Report Share Posted January 18, 2019 5 hours ago, Diss4111 said: I think you know where I mean then? Large Park estate near tiptree? Pm inbound Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
figgy Posted January 18, 2019 Report Share Posted January 18, 2019 (edited) Anyone seen anything from BASC on this issue as David and lately Debbie have been active on here in the past. Debbie posting up what BASC were doing and responses etc. Edited January 18, 2019 by figgy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted January 18, 2019 Report Share Posted January 18, 2019 19 minutes ago, panoma1 said: Yes but would you risk putting HP steel through a Damascus barrelled 1890' English hammergun? Even if it had been nitro proved? That would be advocating putting steel shot through a non steel proofed gun too! Now that is taking to the extreme. I would gladly put steel through ANY fairly modern 3" chambered gun, provided it was in decent condition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted January 18, 2019 Report Share Posted January 18, 2019 3 hours ago, grrclark said: Thankfully early day motions are normally just an opportunity for an MP to say to their constituents that they have raised the issue in parliament, a one sentence statement is read out and that it, however if enough MPs back the motion it may be debated. This is highly likely to be kicked into the long grass very quickly, but it would do no harm for the shooting organisations to have standard letter templates available should any member, or person with a vested interest, wish to make their feelings know to those MPs who supported the motion.. This. They are very often stalled at reading stage until they run out of time, but the MP can at least state to his/her constituents that it has been tabled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted January 18, 2019 Report Share Posted January 18, 2019 28 minutes ago, motty said: Now that is taking to the extreme. I would gladly put steel through ANY fairly modern 3" chambered gun, provided it was in decent condition. Any fairly modern 3" chambered gun in decent condition is going to be worth a few quid. Consequently, before feeding it with some HP steel shot it might just pay to read bullet point 8 of the BASC steel shot information sheet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
figgy Posted January 18, 2019 Report Share Posted January 18, 2019 (edited) The proof houses would be very busy proofing guns for hp steel. Superior steel proofing can be done on any gun with 3" chambers. For older guns bismuth or standard steel carts. Clay targets would just have to be set accordingly for steel shot. Game would need to use the carts we use for fowling. Edited January 18, 2019 by figgy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motty Posted January 18, 2019 Report Share Posted January 18, 2019 19 minutes ago, wymberley said: Any fairly modern 3" chambered gun in decent condition is going to be worth a few quid. Consequently, before feeding it with some HP steel shot it might just pay to read bullet point 8 of the BASC steel shot information sheet. No, you can more than likely pick up a decent 3" for less than £200. I don't really care what BASC have to say on the matter of steel shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Mat Posted January 18, 2019 Report Share Posted January 18, 2019 18 minutes ago, motty said: No, you can more than likely pick up a decent 3" for less than £200. I don't really care what BASC have to say on the matter of steel shot. I had a thought, your gold 10 isn't steel proofed is it? So I wonder what Browning changed between making the non steel proofed, and the steel proofed gold 10s, nothing would be my guess! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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