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Construction apprenticeship


manthing
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Anyone able to help on this. Keep being told that at 16 they are guvmint funded but then get told I have to take them on and pay them. 

Is the cost rebated at the year end or does the cost come off my profits so I pay less Corp tax. 

If anyone has a handle on this I'd appreciate a "chat". 

TIA. 

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My apprentice went through citb to do bench joinery. What a crock of ....

They didnt teach him anything or check at what level he might be. The classroom/ workshop time he had was pathetic. Some days spent bringing in some delivered timber for most of the day! Workshop woefully behind current practice. Spent more time learning how to be safe using the internet and race relations than how to make stuff.

His exam piece which he passed with, i was disgusted with. A door not fit for a dog kennel. Whats the point. And all the time i was paying him to be there. Hopefully getting a rebate but i wont be getting another apprentice. 

Dont get me wrong im all for training new blood but this kind of education is rubbish. Add to that, hes now more qualified than me. 

Rant over.

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Citb is a good way to go.

they use the same colleges as he would with anyone . 

Exam pieces mentioned above ??? It’s an nvq so no exams involved but continued assessments. 

As with any training it’s really down to the company to train them and not relying on college. College is there to learn the bits between like the paperwork work side of it , basic joinery and getting the qualification. 

My lads sailed through it (5-6 now) but we make sure they’re interested in the trade before we spend time on them.

 

 

we get lump sums off citb which cover majority off the wage but they dictate what you pay the lads. Gone are the days of £60 a week so they have to learn quick or leave . 

3 hours ago, millrace said:

Only my view....avoid the citb for all you are worth complete shower of money grabbing #####!!!!!!...........

How are they money grabbing ? They pay us

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12 hours ago, haynes said:

My apprentice went through citb to do bench joinery. What a crock of ....

They didnt teach him anything or check at what level he might be. The classroom/ workshop time he had was pathetic. Some days spent bringing in some delivered timber for most of the day! Workshop woefully behind current practice. Spent more time learning how to be safe using the internet and race relations than how to make stuff.

His exam piece which he passed with, i was disgusted with. A door not fit for a dog kennel. Whats the point. And all the time i was paying him to be there. Hopefully getting a rebate but i wont be getting another apprentice. 

Dont get me wrong im all for training new blood but this kind of education is rubbish. Add to that, hes now more qualified than me. 

Rant over.

I have no idea how any of this works but if he is your apprentice then is it not your job to train him?

The schooling part is their job the hands on skills is your job.

and again I'm not trying to cause any offence but if he can't make a door then surely that's down to you not them?

:shaun:

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I understand that its my job to train him. But i took him on half way through his apprenticeship. So not sure how much hes already been taught. 

He works well with me and hes a good lad. And the work he turns out is of a good standard. But he did this door thing on his own for college and i didnt see it till hed finished that part of the course. And why they had signed him off i dont know.

1 hour ago, shaun4860 said:

I have no idea how any of this works but if he is your apprentice then is it not your job to train him?

The schooling part is their job the hands on skills is your job.

and again I'm not trying to cause any offence but if he can't make a door then surely that's down to you not them?

:shaun:

If in the eyes of the college his not up to scratch then why sign it off? 

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16 hours ago, haynes said:

My apprentice went through citb to do bench joinery. What a crock of ....

They didnt teach him anything or check at what level he might be. The classroom/ workshop time he had was pathetic. Some days spent bringing in some delivered timber for most of the day! Workshop woefully behind current practice. Spent more time learning how to be safe using the internet and race relations than how to make stuff.

His exam piece which he passed with, i was disgusted with. A door not fit for a dog kennel. Whats the point. And all the time i was paying him to be there. Hopefully getting a rebate but i wont be getting another apprentice. 

Dont get me wrong im all for training new blood but this kind of education is rubbish. Add to that, hes now more qualified than me. 

Rant over.

My experience to a tee. 

Then after 4 months he quit to do something completely different, waste of time, and I refused to pay his training company, who had no idea he'd stopped attending. 

They didn't even argue. 

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17 hours ago, haynes said:

My apprentice went through citb to do bench joinery. What a crock of ....

They didnt teach him anything or check at what level he might be. The classroom/ workshop time he had was pathetic. Some days spent bringing in some delivered timber for most of the day! Workshop woefully behind current practice. Spent more time learning how to be safe using the internet and race relations than how to make stuff.

His exam piece which he passed with, i was disgusted with. A door not fit for a dog kennel. Whats the point. And all the time i was paying him to be there. Hopefully getting a rebate but i wont be getting another apprentice. 

Dont get me wrong im all for training new blood but this kind of education is rubbish. Add to that, hes now more qualified than me. 

Rant over.

I taught carpentry and joinery at my local tech, it was a farce. It was all about getting everyone a pass grade. one exercise I failed a young lad because what he had made was a fantastic piece of joinery but it was the wrong height and width so in my eyes was no use.

The head of the department told me to give him a B for it as it was so good. My arguments about if it was someones front door and it was too short and too wide then he wouldn't get paid fell on deak ears

 

3 hours ago, haynes said:

I understand that its my job to train him. But i took him on half way through his apprenticeship. So not sure how much hes already been taught. 

He works well with me and hes a good lad. And the work he turns out is of a good standard. But he did this door thing on his own for college and i didnt see it till hed finished that part of the course. And why they had signed him off i dont know.

If in the eyes of the college his not up to scratch then why sign it off? 

All the college is interested in is passes. They get their funding from passes not failures. My apprenticeship was 5 years of day release and was bloody hard work, not a few months taking photo's and putting a portfolio of someone elses work together. The CITB have dumbed it right down and are producing sub standard tradesmen quickly.

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18 minutes ago, Diss4111 said:

I taught carpentry and joinery at my local tech, it was a farce. It was all about getting everyone a pass grade. one exercise I failed a young lad because what he had made was a fantastic piece of joinery but it was the wrong height and width so in my eyes was no use.

The head of the department told me to give him a B for it as it was so good. My arguments about if it was someones front door and it was too short and too wide then he wouldn't get paid fell on deak ears

 

All the college is interested in is passes. They get their funding from passes not failures. My apprenticeship was 5 years of day release and was bloody hard work, not a few months taking photo's and putting a portfolio of someone elses work together. The CITB have dumbed it right down and are producing sub standard tradesmen quickly.

This is exactly it. Ive been asked for more photos than a little. We did them all in 10mins after work. Pics of him using all the machines. Stupid really as it doesnt help anyone. 

I made a window the wrong size once. Guess what i didnt get paid for it. I made them a new one that was right. 

Whats the point of setting a spec, then ignoring it and passing them anyway.

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30 minutes ago, Diss4111 said:

I taught carpentry and joinery at my local tech, it was a farce. It was all about getting everyone a pass grade. one exercise I failed a young lad because what he had made was a fantastic piece of joinery but it was the wrong height and width so in my eyes was no use.

The head of the department told me to give him a B for it as it was so good. My arguments about if it was someones front door and it was too short and too wide then he wouldn't get paid fell on deak ears

 

All the college is interested in is passes. They get their funding from passes not failures. My apprenticeship was 5 years of day release and was bloody hard work, not a few months taking photo's and putting a portfolio of someone elses work together. The CITB have dumbed it right down and are producing sub standard tradesmen quickly.

Have to agree

I did the same  5 year day release  worked both on bench joinery and on private sites so best of both worlds Working for a small country joinery business

The college was great for the theory and we did bench joinery

We had 4 apprentices came onto the job we're on  2 brickies  1 plasterer and 1 joiner

the brickies were perthetic and would not work no matter how the masons tried to teach them  both left

The joiner lad was good at the start and keen but dwindled off more interested in his mobile and left

The plasterer has stuck to it and will help anyone  and is still keen and can plaster

The whole system is wrong

 

And yes always taking photos of them standing next to work done my us tradesmen

Biggest problem with the young is the bloody mobiles They're on them the whole time even when i tried to warn them that their boss will go off on a one They could'nt care

But i find myself having to show much older blokes how to do jobs  as they have'nt served a proper apprenteship either

Edited by sabel25
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5 hours ago, sabel25 said:

Have to agree

I did the same  5 year day release  worked both on bench joinery and on private sites so best of both worlds Working for a small country joinery business

The college was great for the theory and we did bench joinery

We had 4 apprentices came onto the job we're on  2 brickies  1 plasterer and 1 joiner

the brickies were perthetic and would not work no matter how the masons tried to teach them  both left

The joiner lad was good at the start and keen but dwindled off more interested in his mobile and left

The plasterer has stuck to it and will help anyone  and is still keen and can plaster

The whole system is wrong

 

And yes always taking photos of them standing next to work done my us tradesmen

Biggest problem with the young is the bloody mobiles They're on them the whole time even when i tried to warn them that their boss will go off on a one They could'nt care

But i find myself having to show much older blokes how to do jobs  as they have'nt served a proper apprenteship either

We have a total mobile ban in the workshop and I can’t see why colleges can’t have it either in workshops. 

 

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10 hours ago, haynes said:

I understand that its my job to train him. But i took him on half way through his apprenticeship. So not sure how much hes already been taught. 

He works well with me and hes a good lad. And the work he turns out is of a good standard. But he did this door thing on his own for college and i didnt see it till hed finished that part of the course. And why they had signed him off i dont know.

If in the eyes of the college his not up to scratch then why sign it off? 

Now that makes more sense.

Maybe ask him and go through what he has done or hasn't done and start from scratch, if he is any good and keen then maybe he is a keeper.

:shaun:

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