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Humane dispatch


Joshcup11
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34 minutes ago, Big Mat said:

Personally I wouldn't have anything to do with! 

My licencing department won't even give me humane dispatch on my rifles for dispatching my own livestock if necessary, let alone rta deer! 

Then I would be having a very strong word with my licensing manager. It is unreasonable for him to refuse such a condition for livestock farmers..

The condition you need is "The Firearms may also be used in connection with the Humane Killing of Animals" 

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21 hours ago, Joshcup11 said:

Hi all. 

 

I have been asked recently a few times to go out and dispatch deer and a fox that had been hit by a car. 

It wasn’t the authorities that rang, but friends of friends that knew I was a shooter etc. 

Now I haven’t got humane dispatch on my FAC. However I would of used my .410 silenced shotgun. I refused on the basis that I don’t quite understand the law of using a shotgun on the side of the road etc. 

Has anyone got any advice, does anyone have it on there ticket and more importantly is it against the law for me to go out and shoot an injured fox/deer with my silenced .410 on the side of the road without having it on my fac? As obviously the .410 is on my sgc not my fac? Is it worth applying for on my FAC? 

 

Cheers all! 

 

Josh 

A call into the police control room first and ask them to send someone to meet you. Then talk it through with whoever arrives and you then have the advantage of the police being there to deal with any queries from the public. You can use a shot gun to dispatch, without it being specified on the certificate, but a firearm must have a condition on it which might be humane dispatch or All lawful quarry. It would also need to be an open ticket, unless you have permission to shoot on the land

20 hours ago, bruno22rf said:

Unless my memory is failing me - discharging a firearm within 50 feet of a highway is only illegal if it is likely to cause injury,harm to property or livestock, or something along these lines?

That is my understanding, but if someone came around a corner,  saw you and became distressed or distracted and made a complaint you would have a problem, much better to get the police there. By the way I have had humane dispatch as a condition on my firearms ticket for many years, rarely used apart from cage dispatch.

Edited by Fisheruk
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1 hour ago, Big Mat said:

Personally I wouldn't have anything to do with! 

My licencing department won't even give me humane dispatch on my rifles for dispatching my own livestock if necessary, let alone rta deer! 

Sussex don't condition rifles for humane dispatch as such .

Mine license reads condition 1. The firearms and ammunition shall be used for shooting deer and any other lawful quarry, subject to suitability of the calibre. and for zeroing etc.

Condition 2. "The slaughtering instruments and ammunition shall be used only for the slaughtering of animals." then a bit about borrowing hiring etc

So all the firearms on my license  can be used for killing any quarry that I can legally shoot (AOLQ) plus zeroing (checking at what point your bullet impacts at what range, wind, weather conditions etc)   but slaughtering instruments have a second condition restricting me from using them for zeroing or any thing but killing animals.

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3 minutes ago, Benthejockey said:

I agree if we’re talking about an animal down and unable to move far or too quickly. But a semi mobile or angry animal is a different kettle of fish. 

Too right, trying to move a semi mobile, injured or angry/frightened animal by hand is not to be recommended.

Edited by Fisheruk
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1 hour ago, CharlieT said:

Then I would be having a very strong word with my licensing manager. It is unreasonable for him to refuse such a condition for livestock farmers..

The condition you need is "The Firearms may also be used in connection with the Humane Killing of Animals" 

Tried that, all I got told was that it was up to the decision makers,  who won't be named and I can't speak to them.

I got the feeling that I'd be better of having the conversation with one of the goats! 

34 minutes ago, bluesj said:

Sussex don't condition rifles for humane dispatch as such .

Mine license reads condition 1. The firearms and ammunition shall be used for shooting deer and any other lawful quarry, subject to suitability of the calibre. and for zeroing etc.

Condition 2. "The slaughtering instruments and ammunition shall be used only for the slaughtering of animals." then a bit about borrowing hiring etc

So all the firearms on my license  can be used for killing any quarry that I can legally shoot (AOLQ) plus zeroing (checking at what point your bullet impacts at what range, wind, weather conditions etc)   but slaughtering instruments have a second condition restricting me from using them for zeroing or any thing but killing animals.

I guess you have pistol or such for slaughtering? 

I just wanted it conditioned on my rifles,  should the need arise as there is every possibility I'd be seen dispatching and wanted to be legal.  

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20 minutes ago, Big Mat said:

I guess you have pistol or such for slaughtering? 

I just wanted it conditioned on my rifles,  should the need arise as there is every possibility I'd be seen dispatching and wanted to be legal.  

Yes I've got pistols for slaughtering but also a couple of rifles. Sussex's take on it is as far as I can tell is AOLQ covers it, a couple of my rifles humane dispatch was my good reason for having them.

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58 minutes ago, Fisheruk said:

Too right, trying to move a semi mobile, injured or angry/frightened animal by hand is not to be recommended.

The cow was a big, wild, limmy bullock that had tried to jump a gate to escape from being Tb tested and had smashed both its front legs to pieces. Poor ****** was out of his head with pain and rage and every time we went in the pen it was coming at us even with 2 broken legs. We had to use a big straw bale on a loader to push him quietly into the corner so I could get into a safe position to shoot him. In that instance had I had something like the 357mag carbine I could have shot him from outside of the pen, behind a big solid steel barrier! 

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5 minutes ago, Benthejockey said:

The cow was a big, wild, limmy bullock that had tried to jump a gate to escape from being Tb tested and had smashed both its front legs to pieces. Poor ****** was out of his head with pain and rage and every time we went in the pen it was coming at us even with 2 broken legs. We had to use a big straw bale on a loader to push him quietly into the corner so I could get into a safe position to shoot him. In that instance had I had something like the 357mag carbine I could have shot him from outside of the pen, behind a big solid steel barrier! 

Great tool for the job, use mine a lot.

Also it's a lot less stressful for the animal as you can stand back and not get up in their face.

Edited by bluesj
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14 minutes ago, Scully said:

It never fails to amaze me of the never ending supply of mountains we create out of molehills on this forum. 

I think weather its a mountain or a molehill depends where you are around here just the mention of a gun could get you a visit from the boys in blue but in other areas you can walk down the road with a gun and no one bats an eyelid.

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2 hours ago, bluesj said:

Great tool for the job, use mine a lot.

Also it's a lot less stressful for the animal as you can stand back and not get up in their face.

That’s why I want one. And tagging the AOLQ on will give me chance to play with it and justify it to Mrs BTJ if she notices it’s not like all my other black guns which of course are all just one gun. It’s an awfully big cabinet I’ve got just for one gun 🙈 what rifle have you got? 

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1 hour ago, Benthejockey said:

That’s why I want one. And tagging the AOLQ on will give me chance to play with it and justify it to Mrs BTJ if she notices it’s not like all my other black guns which of course are all just one gun. It’s an awfully big cabinet I’ve got just for one gun 🙈 what rifle have you got? 

Got a couple of rossi stainless, they are cheap (ish) accurate enough at the range I use them and if you drop one in the poo just wash it out with a hose. one has the heavy hexagon barrel and one has the short light barrel, I use the short one most of the time. Got a 308 or a 7mm weatherby if I need to reach out a bit more or got something a bit tougher head.

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On ‎18‎/‎01‎/‎2019 at 18:17, Tford said:

With all the worry you would leave the animal to suffer. Dispatch as quickly, safely and as discretely as possible. The police aren’t ignorant and would take a sensible view based on the circumstances. 

 

 

The police aren't ignorant?

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it is illegal, the police have a system in place for this, they have the correct experience and guns to use.

They are member of the shooting community that have the relevant experience and tools for the job, you can approach your local force if you wish to do this for them,

Do not, get your gun out and definetly do not shoot it on a public highway without police approval.

ATB 

Terry

 

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2 hours ago, Scully said:

What is illegal? 

it is not illegal it is an offence, (poor choice of words) to take our your shotgun on a public highway and fire it without permission of the authority in england and wales, This is not the case in scotland.

Obviously there are mitigating circumstances, and the offence is not the firing of the weapon or having the weapon out of its slip, the offence is if a user of the carriageway is injured, interrupted or endangered. and the onus is on them to prove this ...

My point remains that the police do have a procedure for this, a list of dispatchers (of which I am one) no doubt others will be here too, call the police and report it. we do not want any more bad shooting press.. of  man in the street with a shotgun.. whilst doing the right thing ......

Edited by Terry2016
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15 minutes ago, Terry2016 said:

is not illegal it is an , (poor choice of words) to take our your shotgun on a public highway and fire it without permission of the authority in and wales, This is not the case in .

Obviously there are mitigating circumstances, and the is not the firing of the weapon..  is if a user of the is injured, interrupted or endangered. the onus is on them to prove this

My point remains that the police do have a procedure for this, a list of dispatchers (of which I am one) no doubt others will be here too, call the police and report it. do not want any more bad shooting press..  man in the street with a shotgun..  doing the right thing can see a ...

Can you point me to the legislation where it states permission is required to take or discharge ones shotgun or rifle for that matter on a public highway and from which authority does one obtain this permission.

 

Please don't quote the passage from the Firearms Act or the Highways Act because they don't actually say what you are stating. 

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19 minutes ago, Terry2016 said:

it is not illegal it is an offence, (poor choice of words) to take our your shotgun on a public highway and fire it without permission of the authority in england and wales, This is not the case in scotland.

Obviously there are mitigating circumstances, and the offence is not the firing of the weapon.. the offence is if a user of the carriageway is injured, interrupted or endangered. and the onus is on them to prove this ...

My point remains that the police do have a procedure for this, a list of dispatchers (of which I am one) no doubt others will be here too, call the police and report it. we do not want any more bad shooting press.. of  man in the street with a shotgun.. whilst doing the right thing ...i can see a snow ball...

Exactly, it isn’t illegal nor is it an offence, unless as you say, you interrupt or hinder. We have placed guns on public highways on quite a few ocassions  with the full knowledge of the police. 

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12 hours ago, CharlieT said:

Can you point me to the legislation where it states permission is required to take or discharge ones shotgun or rifle for that matter on a public highway and from which authority does one obtain this permission.

 

Please don't quote the passage from the Firearms Act or the Highways Act because they don't actually say what you are stating. 

Hi Charlie

In England & Wales it is an offence without lawful authority or reasonable excuse to discharge any firearm within fifty feet of the centre of a highway which consists of or comprises a carriageway, and in consequence a user of the carriageway is injured, interrupted or endangered. [Section 161(2)) 

ATB

Terry

 

12 hours ago, Scully said:

Exactly, it isn’t illegal nor is it an offence, unless as you say, you interrupt or hinder. We have placed guns on public highways on quite a few ocassions  with the full knowledge of the police. 

Agreed and as you say with the knowledge of the police, the point I am trying to make to the thread op is that there is a process for humane dispatch. 

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