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electricity supply 'Bulb'


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20 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

I tried a couple (one was "Compare the Market, can't remember what the other was) - both came up with the same one as cheapest ........ but that one got very bad reviews from customers .......... and subsequently failed. 

I moved to another that was still near the cheapest, but had (mostly) good customer feedback - and I have been quite pleased with them (Flow), but they have now been taken over by CoOp energy and it remains to be seen if things will stay good..

Thanks for that. I find it a pain to have to get my online bills up and all they want to know is how much you pay now and not how many units of electricity that you use. Plus I never seem to have the time to sit down and do it!!

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Just now, Ricko said:

Thanks for that. I find it a pain to have to get my online bills up and all they want to know is how much you pay now and not how many units of electricity that you use. Plus I never seem to have the time to sit down and do it!!

The first time I did it, it was quite a lot of effort to dig out old bills etc.  I now use a small iPad app (called Meter Readings by one Graham Haley) to keep a (spreadsheet like, but simpler and tailored to utility meters) to 'manage' it and I know accurately how much gas electricity and water I use.  My electricity usage is low, but living in a large old house - I find it quite useful to 'know where I am' on gas usage as it can use a LOT in cold windy weather!

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8 hours ago, Teal said:

Inability to store electricity is the responsibility of the grid, and not an issue with the generation technology.

Teal, the job of the grid has always been to connect the sources of power to power loads, as reliably as as efficiently as possible.

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9 hours ago, RockySpears said:

  No they do not.

  Over the last few weeks with calm cold days, mid-winter sunshine etc, renewables have provided virtually nothing on some days:

 https://notalotofpeopleknowthat.wordpress.com/2019/01/24/wind-power-down-to-0-7/

  ...but guess what?  When you flick the switch, is it still dark?  No, of course not, because Fossil Fuels and Nuclear have your back.  Probably not for much longer though as with the closure of the last coal stations and old gas ones; with nothing but one nuclear plant beinng built, the lights will go out.

RS

What he said ^

You can check what's being produced by what sources here....

http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

It's looks like wind produced ~ 0 GWh from Friday night to Sunday night and this morning.

Everyone's bought the lies that 'wind power is cheaper than fossil fuels', what's the price of the wind output when it's 0 ?

The market is forced to take whatever wind and solar do produce, so gas has to ramp up and down to cover what it doesn't. This makes the gas

plants less efficient and they make less money, so guess what, nobody is investing in them any more.

It's going to take blackouts here or elsewhere in Europe for people to wake up and smell the (cold) coffee.

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15 hours ago, Nial said:

What he said ^

You can check what's being produced by what sources here....

http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

It's looks like wind produced ~ 0 GWh from Friday night to Sunday night and this morning.

Everyone's bought the lies that 'wind power is cheaper than fossil fuels', what's the price of the wind output when it's 0 ?

The market is forced to take whatever wind and solar do produce, so gas has to ramp up and down to cover what it doesn't. This makes the gas

plants less efficient and they make less money, so guess what, nobody is investing in them any more.

It's going to take blackouts here or elsewhere in Europe for people to wake up and smell the (cold) coffee.

Thats a good point but if more people buy green then surely there is pressure on to find additional capacity for storage? 

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6 minutes ago, oowee said:

Thats a good point but if more people buy green then surely there is pressure on to find additional capacity for storage? 

A LOT of work and research has been going on (for many years actually) on how to 'store' electricity.  It is very difficult - and also inefficient. 

The two main pumped hydro (Cruachan and Dinorwig) can be visited and toured and are very both interesting.  I have been to both.  They can buy VERY cheaply at night to pump up and fill the reservoir, then sell on the spot market when the price is high.  If I remember rightly they can buy at roughly 1/15th of the price at which they can sell - but the process is inefficient in that they use far more power to fill the reservoirs than they get back (I believe it is about 70 - 75%).  They can come up to full output quickly - very quickly (seconds) if they are already spooled up to synchronous speed and prepared, but only run for a short time at full power.

There are currently no other large viable storage systems in the UK.  Elon Musk has (amid his usual blaze of publicity) built one 'for free'  based on lithium-ion batteries for Australia.  It has a capacity of 100MW - which is tiny compared to Cruachan's 7100 MWhr (i.e. 71 x the capacity of the Elon Musk publicity stunt.) which can be delivered at 440MW .  Dinorwig can store 9100 MWhr and deliver at 1650MW.   The UK in winter daytime demand is typically 50,000 MW, so you would need about 30 Dinorwigs,  110 Cruachans, or 500 Elon Musk battery plants.

Hydro pumped storage is long lasting - Cruachan was built in the early 1960s and Dinorwig 1970s.  Batteries have a short (not clearly known at present) life.

Both are essential to the grid as they are capable of 'cold starts' to boot up the whole grid in the event of disaster (Many power stations cannot 'cold start'.)  They are mandated to keep a reserve of capacity to allow this to happen.

 

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7 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

A LOT of work and research has been going on (for many years actually) on how to 'store' electricity.  It is very difficult - and also inefficient. 

The two main pumped hydro (Cruachan and Dinorwig) can be visited and toured and are very both interesting.  I have been to both.  They can buy VERY cheaply at night to pump up and fill the reservoir, then sell on the spot market when the price is high.  If I remember rightly they can buy at roughly 1/15th of the price at which they can sell - but the process is inefficient in that they use far more power to fill the reservoirs than they get back (I believe it is about 70 - 75%).  They can come up to full output quickly - very quickly (seconds) if they are already spooled up to synchronous speed and prepared, but only run for a short time at full power.

There are currently no other large viable storage systems in the UK.  Elon Musk has (amid his usual blaze of publicity) built one 'for free'  based on lithium-ion batteries for Australia.  It has a capacity of 100MW - which is tiny compared to Cruachan's 7100 MWhr (i.e. 71 x the capacity of the Elon Musk publicity stunt.) which can be delivered at 440MW .  Dinorwig can store 9100 MWhr and deliver at 1650MW.   The UK in winter daytime demand is typically 50,000 MW, so you would need about 30 Dinorwigs,  110 Cruachans, or 500 Elon Musk battery plants.

Hydro pumped storage is long lasting - Cruachan was built in the early 1960s and Dinorwig 1970s.  Batteries have a short (not clearly known at present) life.

Both are essential to the grid as they are capable of 'cold starts' to boot up the whole grid in the event of disaster (Many power stations cannot 'cold start'.)  They are mandated to keep a reserve of capacity to allow this to happen.

 

In the past working on Eco home standards for the Homes and Community Agency we looked to install boilers in the houses. Whilst boilers are relatively inefficient they are a good way to store energy produced during the day from renewable's. We also looked at using EV batteries when they were replaced in the EV due to loss of efficiency and putting them into new builds to provide additional capacity. 

Is there any opportunity to build more of the power storage reservoir's in the UK? 

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3 minutes ago, oowee said:

Is there any opportunity to build more of the power storage reservoir's in the UK? 

Very little and extremely high investment.  However like hydro electric and tidal barrage, which are cheaper and more efficient, it is highly susceptible to the whining and whinging of the " Environmentalist" and green pressure groups over impact on the environment.

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1 minute ago, oowee said:

Is there any opportunity to build more of the power storage reservoir's in the UK?

I believe there was one planned for Devon/Dartmoor, but it was never built.  Not sure what size, or where it was to have been.  There are 4 currently operational, Dinorwig and Cruachan being the largest, with Festiniog and apparently Foyers in Scotland (formerly an aluminium works).

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32 minutes ago, proud dad said:

How does Octopus Energy compare?

Just had a quote, basically only a few quid in it, same as before, not worth the hassle swapping.

I'm happy with Ovo, handle my account online, get an email every month asking for my readings,

doing this keeps the acc up to date & you know near enough the monthly payment, in my case £94 for both gas/elec.

Forgot to add Octopus was £97.20 a month.

Edited by Bazooka Joe
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29 minutes ago, Bazooka Joe said:

Just had a quote, basically only a few quid in it, same as before, not worth the hassle swapping.

I'm happy with Ovo, handle my account online, get an email every month asking for my readings,

doing this keeps the acc up to date & you know near enough the monthly payment, in my case £94 for both gas/elec.

Forgot to add Octopus was £97.20 a month.

Ok, thanks for taking the time to do it. I was just curious, but it’s as I thought all the smaller companies are all similar prices.

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