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future of farming


oowee
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13 minutes ago, oowee said:

I never knew that. So British lamb at a premium then. Where is it going?

Is it the same with Bacon? I struggle to buy British. 

Largest markets are France and Germany who, incidentally, prefer light weight lambs.

We are a very small pig meat exporter. 

The top exporting countries are; 

  1. Germany: US$4.8 billion (15.8% of total exported pork)
  2. United States: $4.6 billion (15.2%)
  3. Spain: $4.1 billion (13.5%)
  4. Denmark: $2.7 billion (9.1%)
  5. Canada: $2.5 billion (8.4%)
  6. Netherlands: $2.2 billion (7.2%)
  7. Brazil: $1.5 billion (4.9%)
  8. Belgium: $1.4 billion (4.8%)
  9. Poland: $1.1 billion (3.5%)
  10. France: $932.9 million (3.1%)
  11. Mexico: $527.6 million (1.7%)
  12. Ireland: $502.6 million (1.7%)
  13. Austria: $433.5 million (1.4%)
  14. Hong Kong: $427.2 million (1.4%)
  15. Chile: $396.5 million (1.3%)

 

 

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4 hours ago, tonker said:

Change, adapt, diversify and life goes on, as it has for hundreds of years. Farming is a way of life not a job. 😊.

This

Also the Somerset levels and surrounding areas have a clue in the name 'somer' ... The land was always used for summer grazing if you go back far enough in history, its too wet in the winter to harvest crops and the quality of ground is good for grass to graze, so if what you say is true oowee  the levels will turn into dirty scrubland if not farmed and alot of wild life will be lost. 

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10 minutes ago, ShootingEgg said:

This

Also the Somerset levels and surrounding areas have a clue in the name 'somer' ... The land was always used for summer grazing if you go back far enough in history, its too wet in the winter to harvest crops and the quality of ground is good for grass to graze, so if what you say is true oowee  the levels will turn into dirty scrubland if not farmed and alot of wild life will be lost. 

Not saying how it's going to be cause I have no strong views on the subject. Just pointing out some of the things I am seeing and asking others what they think. I think with all of these things where there is a will there is a way and the levels are pretty unique in what they could offer as an enhanced wildlife habitat. I am thinking of the flooded areas that have been created. 

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33 minutes ago, Old farrier said:

Not so sure about all this and I’ve probably got it wrong 

However 

we give farmers subsidies (benefit) to grow cheap food 

and they spend the money on Range Rovers 

and moan about it 

More or less. But you have to know that moaning is farm-speak. If it's raining it's too wet. If it's not raining it's too dry. If the weather's perfect, it's not going to last. If you get a better price for your store cattle than you would have got the previous week, you sold them too soon and if the price was less you sold them too late. Yes, you admit your barley is looking well, but the cost of fertilizer has become almost ruinous. And so on. Unless you want to be viewed with the utmost suspicion by your neighbors,  you can never, ever admit to being pleased about anything :)

Edited by Retsdon
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38 minutes ago, Retsdon said:

More or less. But you have to know that moaning is farm-speak. If it's raining it's too wet. If it's not raining it's too dry. If the weather's perfect, it's not going to last. If you get a better price for your store cattle than you would have got the previous week, you sold them too soon and if the price was less you sold them too late. Yes, you admit your barley is looking well, but the cost of fertilizer has become almost ruinous. And so on. Unless you want to be viewed with the utmost suspicion by your neighbors,  you can never, ever admit to being pleased about anything :)

Jeez ain't that the truth. 😂

I'm involved in a lot of land deals, and have learned to speak farmer misery well. 

The biggest compliment I have ever been paid was from a Devon farmer who declared that I wasn't a complete idiot. 

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18 hours ago, Lord v said:

+1

Veganism is nigh impossible to sustain in this country without imports. Ever tried growing quinoa in Glasgow ? 

Farmers will diversify, it tends to make the land more efficient. 

The environmental subsidies are very interesting. I am a big fan of natural flood management and this is a genuinely an excellent opportunity to get ahead of the curve. 

Why would you try to grow Quinoa in Glasgow anyway? Quite a lot of it growing in East Anglia. Just saying. 

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"promoting and maintaining.., a stable and efficient agricultural industry capable of producing such part of the nation's food and other agricultural produce as in the national interest it is desirable to produce in the United Kingdom, and of producing it at minimal prices consistently with proper remuneration and living conditions for farmers and workers in agriculture and an adequate return on capital invested in the industry'.

I suspect that in c1947 this was written, in effect, by the estate/land owning gentlemen farmers (the so called "landed gentry") who were not its target audience, but the working farmer/possibly tenant who were. I for one, rather than seeing Range Rovers driven by estate agents/accountants/footballers/pop stars, ad infinitum,  would much prefer to see them in the hands of a practising farmer whose working performance in terms of efficiency, animal husbandry and the environment has been deemed acceptable by his peers and suitably rewarded for his contribution to the Nation.

Edited by wymberley
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On 30/01/2019 at 16:22, oowee said:

Thought we might talk more about farming than the EU. 

Any idea why UK lamb is so much more expensive than that from NZ? Is it simply a matter of scale? 

 

 

Also with the scale the livestock welfare drops, many of these larger farms will not be looking stock very often so have almost no vets bills.

If it lives it lives if it dies it dies. But u do actually see more UK farmers dong similar opening all gates and just 'ranching' the sheep to save labour costs.

Out in OZ many sheep will only be handled twice a year clipping and crutching times apart from that they will be pretty much left to get on with it

 

There is shiploads of beef that come into the docks every week from counties in africa and south america where there own people have real starvation issues. Not mentioning disease (F&M is rife as well as others) and i'm sure a bit of 'angel dust' is still used (wasn't tat long ago they stopped its use in Eire really)

It is just bonkers

 

As for dairying, no small dairies left in my area now almost all the smaller ones about 120 cows are on robots, none any smaller than 100ish cow, yet 30 yrs ago 40-50 would be average and 120 was a big set up. Quite a few doing 3,4,500 some even in 1000's.

While the cows are well looked after its nothing like how they used to be, now many cows might never ever see or eat a blade of grass in a field (depending on alf rearing system) and the new holestien breeding loook terrible, just bags of bones with udders and have a very short life span and bull calf's are worthless.

It seems a strange way modern dairying has went all in the name of progress

 

It's all very well saying diversify but most of UK farmland ur really are pretty limited by soil, altitude and climate, there is only so many tea rooms a valley can have

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15 minutes ago, scotslad said:

 

Also with the scale the livestock welfare drops, many of these larger farms will not be looking stock very often so have almost no vets bills.

If it lives it lives if it dies it dies. But u do actually see more UK farmers dong similar opening all gates and just 'ranching' the sheep to save labour costs.

Out in OZ many sheep will only be handled twice a year clipping and crutching times apart from that they will be pretty much left to get on with it

 

There is shiploads of beef that come into the docks every week from counties in africa and south america where there own people have real starvation issues. Not mentioning disease (F&M is rife as well as others) and i'm sure a bit of 'angel dust' is still used (wasn't tat long ago they stopped its use in Eire really)

It is just bonkers

 

As for dairying, no small dairies left in my area now almost all the smaller ones about 120 cows are on robots, none any smaller than 100ish cow, yet 30 yrs ago 40-50 would be average and 120 was a big set up. Quite a few doing 3,4,500 some even in 1000's.

While the cows are well looked after its nothing like how they used to be, now many cows might never ever see or eat a blade of grass in a field (depending on alf rearing system) and the new holestien breeding loook terrible, just bags of bones with udders and have a very short life span and bull calf's are worthless.

It seems a strange way modern dairying has went all in the name of progress

 

It's all very well saying diversify but most of UK farmland ur really are pretty limited by soil, altitude and climate, there is only so many tea rooms a valley can have

Fascinating post. One of my farmers has gone robotic with 4 herds of 50 cattle all sourced from Germany to avoid TB and apparently cheaper to buy. The cattle look really well, if a little docile. One went robotic and then abandoned the whole thing. Expensive test. 

There are a few that I shoot on that have maybe 120 cows but there is a huge difference in set up when they get to around 3-400 animals.  The latter have very good facilities and all of the kit rather than being just a couple of blokes. Big issue here is all the Vegan animal rights stuff, particularly on the big holdings. One had cameras put up on his midden and out in the field where he had a shackled cow and then posted the stuff on FB. 

Tea room farm shop stuff has worked really well for some but as you say limited. My neighbour here has just bought his own packaging and plant to get direct to customers and improve margins.

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About 3 years ago i was working with another tradesman and we got on about goings on

He stated that his either son or younger brother Can'nt recall now

But he was working in a meat processing unit  Processing British lamb that was being exported to NZ  and imported back as NZ lamb

What the hell is all that about

Same as the Scottish farmer producing strawberries that were collected delivered to a central processing plant then sent to either Bulgaria or poland to be packaged then shipped back to a central distribution centre it the UK and distributed around the country for the farmer to see them in the supermarket just down the road Fresh Scottish Strawberries?

Farm sudstities as said started after the second world war for farmers to produce more food for the nation instead of them just making a living for themselves with a few cows and sheep

going to the local market

We all know we put more into the EU than we get out WE subsidise all the dross in the EU that do not produce. allow themselves extra holidays and retire early all on borrowed money that they cannot pay back

Southern Ireland being a prime example when they were bust exploiting the EU handouts

We have been in the EU for 41.42 years 

This country has been trading all over the world for centuries so why the hell have we got to be governed by some self appointed idiots that are only interested in lining  their own  bank accounts

Tony and Cheryl Blair are prime examples of the fact being multi-millionairs through their dealings in the EU but at the same time selling Britain down the proverbial exrtiment drain

Like her or loath her only Maggy Thatcher could stand her ground with the EU Bureucrats and fort the corner for the British public and anyone else when it comes to that

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I had an intresting conversion with 1 farmer about these smaller herds and using robots.

A lot putting them in and all love them but also a few pulling them out.

Even a few farms gong the exact oppisate to wot we call NZ style and milking wee hairy sort of Jersey crosses that they dry off over winter and all calf at the exact same time, really low input low out put system, no sheds, ideally no winter feed (but doesn't actually happen up here too cold/wet) so dairies milking 1000 cows for 7-9 month of year but very low yields. 1 farmer has about 1200 to calf in the next 40 or so days

 

He reckoned u were better off milking by hand in a modern palour and u could have them all milked in 1hr twice a day + clean up etc, and thats u finished for the day to do other jobs or even time off.

With a robot ur not tied to the unsocial hours which is why most farmers put them in, very expensive to install and need sheds to suit it, cows never outside again.

But his main flaw against robots was ur on standby quite literally 24/7/365, if that bleeper goes there is a problem with a robot u have to go then anfd there. Doesn't matter if havig a night off or in middle of silage/harvest its tools down and check robot.

Most robots can cope with about 60 cows and most farms will work to the max to get profits so it desn't take long for a pile of cows to build up at the working robots. Also if a robot breaks down in thes esort of colder temps -6ish the now pipework can start to freeze causing other issues

its yet to be seen how they handle milking years down the line and wot the mainteance costs are like as the specialist engineers aren't cheap

Edited by scotslad
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9 hours ago, scotslad said:

It's all very well saying diversify but most of UK farmland ur really are pretty limited by soil, altitude and climate, there is only so many tea rooms a valley can have

Very true. And there's another factor too. Diversification costs money. Let's see what interest rates look like after Brexit.

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Going back to any subsidy changes or making them for environmental 'benefits'.

 

The massive flaw in that argument is that  creating habat alone is almost useless.

They have played at it since grants came out. There is more prime habitat now than there has been since the 70's with load sof new ponds created and miles of hedges, woods planted yet most native animals (even including rabbits) ae really struggling.

 

Which ever way grants go they have to address the elephant in the room that is predator control, its not rocket science  the GWCT manta of a 3 legged stool, Feed, Habitat and Protection any 1 fails it all fails, every keeper for hundreds of years producing massive bags of truely wild bred birds.

I think some of the later HLS schemes have began to include supplementry feeding through the 'hungry gap' which is a good thing and an extra leg on the stool

 

Even if u look at some of the modern SFP conditions, they've basicly taken stuff they've seen on shooting estates, changed it without understanding why it works and making ALL farmers do it. Just a complete waste of time, land and money

I'm also involved with a wildlife trust that despite having a high population of malard nesting can't raise a single duckling,, been 5 or 5 years now since a duckling actually fledged, despite the habitat being ideal and fed year round. All because they refuse to kill a few crows and stoats, because of the small area it literally wuld only be a handful of corbies and 1 or 2 stoats, just over that critical nesting time.

1 paticularly bad year the trust commitee members moaned about the lack of chicks and adults dissappearing of the nest then later boasted about all the great stoat photos everyone was taking. U just couldn't make it up.

I've told them that reserve is unsustainable and relies on nieghbouring shooting estates supply the duck to come there to be ate by somethig, just a free Mcdonalds for vermin.

 

While its great any future subsidy should have evironmental aspects they ave to actually work for both farmer and wildlife and not just pay lip service, at minute many are just a pita for farmer and ****** all good for wildlife

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Personally I think those that can, are going to have to dig a bit deeper in their pockets and pay for a premium product and eat less of it, perhaps sourced on a more local level via farm shops/markets etc...........dairy products could be delivered, milk in glass bottles, local slaughter houses for home finished lamb/mutton, smaller horticultural produces selling bent carrots..... etc etc ....diversification away from Tesco's and their demands

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Going on wot islandgun said, most of the older rural folk will mind of local dairies taking milk from loca farms and delivering it to ur door every morning.

So milk usually 2 days old.

 

Now a farmer told me, if they were to go on strike to hit the christmas market it would be the 10th Dec they have to stop producing milk.

And most milk u drink now could be a week old before it gets to u.

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There are a few farm shops around here but they've been on the go since Jesus was a lad, and about 10 years or so ago we started seeing an upsurge in farmers markets locally where you could actually buy veg' with actual real soil on...who'd have thought! 

There are a few tea rooms but none run by farmers, and one large Jersey ice cream parlour which came about off the strength of his own Jersey herd, which is always heaving throughout the warmer weather. Caravanning and camping as part of the tourism business has always been big business, and many farms now have hard standing as I've already explained.

I know of one farmer who retired after being paid huge amounts by a power company for allowing them to erect wind turbines on his land, and yet another who as well as having tourers and campers on his land in season, leases out land for a glider club.  As I've said, I don't know of any whom are worried. 

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