foregive those that trespass..

[Gunnut]

Saw an article in Mondays Daily Mail, so it must be true, Churches are being urged to forgive those that trespass, and are offering there land to travellers, so they can set up official campsites near to Anglian churches. Or travellers could set up camps on farms or forest owned by the Church of England, has part of its £800 billion wealth fund. The Church of England report comes, after travellers have faced a wave of accusations of trespassing when they have set up, temporary homes around the country. The document has been backed by the Right Rev Stephen Cottrell the Bishop of Chelmsford. They is also evidence of these people being refused baptism, Weddings, and funerals, and some churches cutting of water on there graveyard taps. it also said the C of E should set up a commision, to find sites for travellers, and also pressed the C of E diocese to appoint a chaplain for them. Have they been overdoing it on the Holy wine.

 

[Rewulf]

Better get a goodly supply of lead in then, and the tradesmen to keep replacing it.

My mates dad, before he went off to the big horse fair in the sky , claimed to have bought his house with 'church' lead.

He said if they keep replacing it, he would keep taking it.

[strimmer_13]

Theyll soon retract that offer when they are pulling bags of feces and barrels of **** that have been chucked in the hedge. Ive had the job of cleaning up after this lot, and all shouldnt be branded the same, but everytime theyve been around they treat any area like a tip. Revolting behaviour 

[grrclark]

Hah, we had a factory adjacent to Glasgow airport and the CofE held the freehold for the land.

A liftle while after we vacated the factory a group of travellers set up camp, I can assure you the CofE were not at all interested in accomodating them.

The CofE Have a very significant commercial property portfolio, if so inclined they could easily provide sites around the country from their own estate.

I rather suspect they will be looking for other to make that offer whilst suggesting they might be able to do something somewhere and never actually do it.

[getthegat]

Yep, heard the same and the word is a local church just a mile from my workshop, is one place that is ear marked for "Travelers" I have to say we are worried. Doesn't traveler mean just that?

[figgy]

If the C of E have £800 billion why are churches always holding church roof repair fetes etc

[Mice!]

18 minutes ago, figgy said:

If the C of E have £800 billion why are churches always holding church roof repair fetes etc

Probably that amount on paper, and why spend your own money when the sinners will give you there's 😃 

[figgy]

Mice they must still have lots of money for upkeep.

Funny how religions are the some of the wealthiest business around when the good books say to give and not be greedy. Hmmm practice what you preach me thinks.

[JohnfromUK]

The church has huge (and very diversified) assets - land, buildings, shares.  These are managed by the "Church Commissioners" to provide income to pay salaries and pensions of the clergy, upkeep of churches, graveyards etc.  Income is limited, hence the need for perpetual fund raising.

If you sold off the assets, the income would go as well, so nothing to pay the clergy.

[dabbers]

i believe the famous Roslin Chapel always welcomed gypsies or as you say travellers over the centuries,,cant see them doing that now after Tom Hanks visited

[henry d]

Excellent to see so much rubbish touted as truth again.

15 hours ago, Gunnut said:

...as part of its £800 billion wealth fund.

800 Billion really? 8.3B of investable assets, not just cash sitting around and without that you kiss goodbye to the upkeep of said churches.

I don`t know if it is you or the Daily Fail that used "Tresspasses" but that is the incorrect translation (usually the KJV) of opheilema which means debt (moral or financial) so please don`t use it as a stick to beat the church as the context is incorrect because of the translation (and ignorance).

13 hours ago, grrclark said:

... I can assure you the CofE were not at all interested in accomodating them.

Was that actually the CoE or was it the factors/security that looked after the land? I would also suspect that they would see travellers in Scotland as an ecumenical problem relating to the CoS ?

9 hours ago, figgy said:

Mice they must still have lots of money for upkeep.

Funny how religions are the some of the wealthiest business around when the good books say to give and not be greedy. Hmmm practice what you preach me thinks.

Yesterday I was at a church on the E coast of Scotland, Arbroath, and it was quite humbling to see what is being done in the name of Christ. The minister has been there 26/7 years and early on some of the parishoners wanted to help the community somehow. A variety of things were tried and some went well others not so well, one was really good. A few said it would be good to have some form of cafe where local drug addicts, people who were on support, mental health issues etc etc. could get a cuppa and something to eat and some warmth, perhaps even some help even if it is just someone to listen to. They opened (a closed down shop) once a week and had no-one attend for a full year and on the anniversary of it opening had a young tattooed guy come in and they gave him coffee and toast which he sat and finished in silence before leaving. With this blazing success they asked the session/minister if they could open more regularly, which they did. Although I am belittling this project, it is now a huge success, and that young man is now clean and free and helps others to get free and clean as he was helped by the church to get help. He wasn`t the only one, and the project got bigger and better known in that the local sherriff gave more lenient sentences if the offender attended the cafe as there were now christian social workers (some recently have just given up there jobs and are awaiting funding, so basically working for the common good for free) and peer to peer workers (junkies healing junkies if you like). The local police were refering people there too.

Long story short, they have been doing this and several other things in the community (foodbank in the mid 90`s so before they were common, a credit union...), now it is a thriving community hub and many people who some refer to as scum are living good lives and are an "asset" to society.

This isn`t a lone church getting it right, its something in the backgraound that those who have plenty don`t see as it is not on their radar, however it is there and it is serving the community where the statutory sector is not.

Havilah Arbroath as mentioned above and closer to me and my heart Tulloch NET, and if anyone is bothered to watch the video, Janet now goes off holidaying abroad and was in Austria last year, something she never thought she would do even when her husband Allan was alive.

Is that practicing what they preach Figgy?

[Vince Green]

You can't just let people set up home on your land, no matter how sympathetic you may be about their plight. There are planning laws and those laws exist for a good reason

[Rewulf]

1 hour ago, henry d said:

Is that practicing what they preach

Personally I would say that's the church, or rather local church and communities doing good things, and I know there are not many communities that don't do something to help the homeless and vulnerable. 

But what that has to do with the church welcoming travellers onto their land I'm not sure? 

Would you like them living next door to you? 

Edited February 6, 2019 by Rewulf

[henry d]

Don`t think that travellers actually want to set up home as such, hence the name, and if they do want a permanent home then it becomes a housing issue.

There`s two, about 300 m away from my house right now and a semi/permanent site a mile away

Edited February 6, 2019 by henry d

[Vince Green]

Just now, henry d said:

Don`t think that travellers actually want to set up home as such, hence the name, and if they do want a permanent home then it becomes a housing issue

A lot of the travelling community have permanent homes in Ireland, and own large tracts of land that they have bought up over the years.

[henry d]

...but they aren`t actually travelling, unless you mean they too can have a pitch next to the church?

[Rewulf]

Just now, henry d said:

...but they aren`t actually travelling, unless you mean they too can have a pitch next to the church?

They usually 'travel' when they have exhausted the 'revenue' of the area. 

And yes, many of them have permanent abodes somewhere. Some even make it a permanent residence and try to cultivate a steady legal business, and get away from the lawlessness of the name painted upon them. 

And some, usually the ones that travel, will rob you blind and move on. 

[Yellow Bear]

1 minute ago, Rewulf said:

And some, usually the ones that travel, will rob you blind and move on

And leave a massive mess of rubbish and excreta for others to clear up.

[Rewulf]

10 minutes ago, Yellow Bear said:

And leave a massive mess of rubbish and excreta for others to clear up.

That's to say thank you for having them 😂

[Pigeon Shredder.]

In today’s Telegraph Sajid Javid announces that the police are to get new powers to evict travellers from private land, he will also announce that he is “considering” making it a criminal offence for travellers to trespass on private land when setting up an encampment.

I await the outcome with baited breath.

[Gunnut]

Many thanks henry d for pointing my so called spelling mistake, but where did you actually see tresspassing in my earlier post!!.

Edited February 6, 2019 by Gunnut

[TIGHTCHOKE]

3 hours ago, henry d said:

Don`t think that travellers actually want to set up home as such, hence the name, and if they do want a permanent home then it becomes a housing issue.

There`s two, about 300 m away from my house right now and a semi/permanent site a mile away

Lucky you, Peterborough City Council are forever issuing paperwork to move them on, they arrive, break in to private property, leave their mess and then move on to the next place just before the 3 week move notice becomes active! 

Edited February 6, 2019 by TIGHTCHOKE
Syntax!

[henry d]

1 hour ago, Gunnut said:

Many thanks henry d for pointing my so called spelling mistake, but where did you actually see tresspassing in my earlier post!!.

I didn't say you made a spelling mistake, either you or the Fail used the word trespassing (it's in the title and you used it twice in your post) I just pointed out the error of using the wrong translation from the Greek which leads to the context being incorrect or just using it to attack the CoE

[Vince Green]

4 hours ago, henry d said:

...but they aren`t actually travelling, unless you mean they too can have a pitch next to the church?

The travellers over here return to their homes in Limerick when they are not 'working' over here. The Irish Government back around the 50s passed some aggressive laws making it illegal to be homeless. The law was aimed at the Travellers and the intention was to drive them over to Britain to get rid of them for good.

However, the Travellers were one step ahead of the Irish Government. They bought up farms and farm land in Limerick that was (back then) virtually worthless but it established that they owned property so weren't homeless..

Since then they have expanded and consolidated their holdings, then along came the EU and the agricultural subsidies made them rich. There is a town that they virtually own, called raithkeil (spelling?) 

Edited February 6, 2019 by Vince Green

[Bobba]

2 hours ago, Pigeon Shredder. said:

In today’s Telegraph Sajid Javid announces that the police are to get new powers to evict travellers from private land, he will also announce that he is “considering” making it a criminal offence for travellers to trespass on private land when setting up an encampment.

I await the outcome with baited breath.

In the ROI trespass has been a criminal offence since 1994 (Public Order Act) which contributes to many "Travellers" coming to the Uk. The other is their deliberate criminal intent as a way of "earning a living"

Vince Green is right about Rathkeale. The Independant did an interesting article on "Rathkeale: a small Irish town swollen by the proceeds of crime". It seems that many of the families activities are now international.