Walker570 Posted February 13, 2019 Report Share Posted February 13, 2019 If you feel he will be embarrased by you doing it then persuade him to go get some help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 13, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2019 Interesting stuff chaps; very interesting. Thanks all. This really is an excellent forum. Quite looking forward to a lesson or two to be honest, just got to persuade him now! 8 minutes ago, wymberley said: Yep. It is sometimes said that, "my 20 bore which is 3/4 choke patterns tighter than my 12 bore which is also 3/4". You know what they mean, but the fact is as said many times, choke is a performance and not a measurement and for the quoted words to be accurate, one of those two bores is either shooting looser than marked, or the other, tighter. 6 minutes ago, Hamster said: To answer your actual question, no, a Cylinder 20 bore choke will in no way be as tight as a Full 12 bore, in fact it will or rather should be the same as a Cylinder ! Choke as I'm sure you're aware is a "performance" rather than an actual measurement, true the manufacturers have to standardise the format and characterise them via numbers by increments of thou decreases in choke diameter but for all practical purposes the "performances" will be similar, not identical but similar enough. If 20 bore threw tighter than 12 then it would follow that 28 bore would throw even tighter than 20 which would then mean we could easily surpass the accepted academic "performance" of Full being 70% inside a 30" circle in 40 yards which of course we can't - some combination of tight choke and a given cartridge may consistently throw 75% or even a tad tighter but that could happen with any bore but is in fact more likely to happen with 12 bore, something to do with this bore having the best compromise of shot column stack leading to fewer fliers. Thanks both. Much appreciated. 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted February 13, 2019 Report Share Posted February 13, 2019 The chokes on my 410 are just marked 1 11 111 1111 and I assumed the 1 is full choke which was proved correct when patterned it. I haven't a clue what meaurments internally but they will definitely be different to a miriad of other shotguns, other than similar model Yilditz. It is not possible to compare choke for choke unless it is the same make and model and made in the same era. Certainly a fixed choke in a reasonably well made shotgun will differ as the gun maker will have patterned the barrels individually. With todays CNC machining then interchangeables are going to be similar but only for the same make/model etc., It is not possible to blame the chokes for poor shooting the centre of the pattern will be in the same place, where the target should be. To say "OH, but a 12 gauge gives me a bigger pattern", is actually admitting you are a poor shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultrastu Posted February 13, 2019 Report Share Posted February 13, 2019 I Think I've told this before .but its still relevant . A guy i met invited me to shoot some crows and pige with him on his land . He is a rifle shooter but has an old 12b biakal ou. I took my mossy 20b and we sat side by side in the hide .i was dropping a few and had some screamers over head . He missed everything without fail Perplexed .i asked him to shoot at a dead pigeon 20 yds out in the field. He missed about 15 ft short from a standing position .he tried again aiming (for him ) just above the birds head .he missed 12 ft short . Clearly .his head /gun fit was completely wrong . I asked him how he was aiming and what he saw along the rib .. He said he got his face down hard onto the comb and looked completely flat along the rib (ie couldnt any of see it .) This made him shoot low . (He believed this was how he was supposed to look down the gun ).i had a go with his gun and mounted the gun in a way that felt natural to me . (I could see a fair amount of that rib ) and hit the bird full on . He was very supprised to learn that the gun didnt fit him and he needed to adjust .either how he mounted the gun.or the gun stock to suit him . Without the gun fitting you .no amount of practice on clays or with a teacher or lessons will help .in my opinion. First things first . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 13, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2019 1 hour ago, Ultrastu said: Without the gun fitting you .no amount of practice on clays or with a teacher or lessons will help .in my opinion. First things first . I agree, but you can't fit a gun to someone with an inconsistent mount. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultrastu Posted February 13, 2019 Report Share Posted February 13, 2019 Well yes very true . I guess the only remedy to that is to pick the damn thing up (instead of it being locked away all the time ) and shoot it . Best of luck mate . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted February 13, 2019 Report Share Posted February 13, 2019 Just watch a few trick shooters and they do a lot of shooting without even mounting the gun, purely instinct. I have had two guns fitted and the stocker first set the shotgun to my dimensions, asked me to mount the gun and then did the fine adjustment. He said to not 'aim' it but just to mount it so he could judge what adjustment was necessary. That was over 30yrs ago and both of those shotguns come up as cleanly today as they did when he presnted me with the finished work and to this day I don't aim either of them I just look at the bird and judge where I need the pattern to be, the rest is as instinctive as pointing my finger. The little Yilditz 410 I purchased, just felt right the moment I picked it up and I shoot it in the same way. I was just lucky the gun was as near as mattered to being a good fit. Actually 'aiming' the shotgun to do pattern tests feels alien..weird. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitebridges Posted February 15, 2019 Report Share Posted February 15, 2019 On 13/02/2019 at 20:12, Scully said: Thankyou. You’re right; I know he would enjoy it so much more if he could hit consistently. I don’t think he’s ever given any thought regarding fit, footwork, or technique, and know for a fact that the 12 he uses can bruise his cheek by the end of the day. I once asked if he’d never considered a Browning, and lo and behold the 20 is a Browning! Why he hangs onto that Beretta 12 bore I don’t know. 🤔 I used to quite like Beretta O/U but i'd be ******** if i could shoot well with one. I have a 687 28g with 30 ins barrels which is the best of all and it's still in the cabinet. it has a 15in LOP. The Beretta Auto's are a different cup of tea though. I love 'em. By the sound of things he ought to think about a 12 bore browning ! You're a proper bloke Scully trying to sort this fella out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 15, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2019 7 minutes ago, Whitebridges said: I used to quite like Beretta O/U but i'd be ******** if i could shoot well with one. I have a 687 28g with 30 ins barrels which is the best of all and it's still in the cabinet. it has a 15in LOP. The Beretta Auto's are a different cup of tea though. I love 'em. By the sound of things he ought to think about a 12 bore browning ! You're a proper bloke Scully trying to sort this fella out. Thankyou. I'm the same with Beretta ou's; they don't fit me and tend to slap after a while, but get on great with their autos. For years I've bitten my tongue where his 12 bore Beretta is concerned as I feel he'd suit a Browning better. He has shot ( and shot well ) with my Perazzi, but for some reason he sticks to this Beretta! He's up for a lesson or two anyhow when I mentioned it; we're going to see what we can arrange for Westlands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitebridges Posted February 16, 2019 Report Share Posted February 16, 2019 15 hours ago, Scully said: Thankyou. I'm the same with Beretta ou's; they don't fit me and tend to slap after a while, but get on great with their autos. For years I've bitten my tongue where his 12 bore Beretta is concerned as I feel he'd suit a Browning better. He has shot ( and shot well ) with my Perazzi, but for some reason he sticks to this Beretta! He's up for a lesson or two anyhow when I mentioned it; we're going to see what we can arrange for Westlands. I hope it all goes well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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