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Slam Discharge in Semi Auto


Taileron
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20 hours ago, sportsbob said:

Just being the Devils advocate here but if the gun is returned with no fault found would you be happy to pay for the costs involved?

I wouldn’t be overjoyed about any costs as it’s brand new but it’s on it way now. I really like the Affinity, it’s the first shotgun I have ever owned and had such a good hit rate straight out of the box. ALL of my previous shotguns have required at least a couple of months of clays to get my eye in, and some of those were 2.5k guns, not £650 which I paid for the Affinity. If I Px it, I will get half of it’s initial costs back at best. If I’m honest I don’t think it is a mechanical problem, a primer issue is more likely, but at least I will have my confidence back in it.

cheers

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On ‎14‎/‎02‎/‎2019 at 17:48, Westley said:

Which is why I always ease the bolt forwards using my right hand on my 303. I just hate that 'slam' as it closes, too  !

How do you stop that "slam" when the gun is ejecting the fired round and cycling the round from the magazine to the chamber?

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I have seen this happen with home loads being cycled and slam firing when going into battery. The recoil seemed to shunt the primers back a touch and it was a case of poor quality control by the reloader, using a hot primer in a too loose primer pocket. Your incident was the first round into the chamber so presumably was straight from the box. Personally, I would have isolated that box for testing as well as the gun. The working parts of these guns are designed to move forward rapidly for reliable operation and easing forward would negate reliability, what of the second or third shot? My preference is for pump guns and slowly cycling just creates problems. I would echo the earlier comments regarding safe direction, in these, thankfully, fairly rare failures, safe direction is the only thing preventing tragedy, a reminder for all readers, skilled to novice there.  It will be interesting to hear what the dealer/importer/manufacturer has to say, perhaps you will post when they report back. Good luck with it and welcome to the forum 

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Couple of  thoughts .

1  the cartridge had a primer that was not fully seated -- check the rest of the box ..

2 the striker was jammed in the fried position ,thus protruding .

3 the gun had not cocked or that the sears have slipped .

This may be an unexplained one off occurrence but I would want the gun returned to the seller for a full investigation as there is a potential danger .

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On 14/02/2019 at 17:48, Westley said:

Which is why I always ease the bolt forwards using my right hand on my 303. I just hate that 'slam' as it closes, too  !

That is your choice but if you think about this logically every time you fire a semi auto the bolt is slamming home , so easing it on loading the first round is doing very little good. The Original poster here did the right thing he used safe gun handling something thats the important thing.

As an adition to the easing bolt forward slowly it might not lock up properly if operated like this, the momentum of the bolt traveling forwards is needed to ensure its locked up if its not and only partially locked up on the lugs it might not be out enough to prevent it from firing, then it could effectively free blow back almost this as potential to injure people or the gun.

Chamber the round point it in a safe direction and send the bolt home by pushing the release is my advice.

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Just been for a shoot this morning and between my Franchi Affinity, about 4 SX3's and a Mossberg we must have shot several hundred cartridges without a single jam or any other issue.

I am inclined to think it was a dodgy cartridge.  The Benelli/Franchi action is very tried and tested and all the reports I have read indicates that they are very robust and reliable.

Hopefully your confidence will be restored in the Franchi.  

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11 hours ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

How do you stop that "slam" when the gun is ejecting the fired round and cycling the round from the magazine to the chamber?

By then my attention is on the second target and as it all happens so fast, I fail to notice the guns mechanism. BUT, by then the gun is in my shoulder and if it accidentally discharges, it would still be in the area of my first shot, so would not really matter.    😜

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9 hours ago, lancer425 said:

That is your choice but if you think about this logically every time you fire a semi auto the bolt is slamming home , so easing it on loading the first round is doing very little good. The Original poster here did the right thing he used safe gun handling something thats the important thing.

As an adition to the easing bolt forward slowly it might not lock up properly if operated like this, the momentum of the bolt traveling forwards is needed to ensure its locked up if its not and only partially locked up on the lugs it might not be out enough to prevent it from firing, then it could effectively free blow back almost this as potential to injure people or the gun.

Chamber the round point it in a safe direction and send the bolt home by pushing the release is my advice.

I have been using an auto in this manner for some 55 years, I have yet to have any mishaps. I have explained above, with regards to any second shot.  It is the 'slamming' of the bolt during the initial loading that would cause any issues. The gun would be around waist height, possibly not held too securely and where would the barrel be pointing  ?  My barrel points at the ground some 20 feet in front of me and I can feel that the bolt has closed fully AND locked, with less chance of the 'slam' causing an accidental discharge.

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As an afterthought to this incident, consider this. If the hammer rode the bolt forward (due to not being held by the sear)would there be enough energy to tap the firing pin as the bolt entered battery? I am fairly certain that with the hammer touching the back of the bolt, the pin would not protrude at the front, it is the inertia of the hammer striking the pin that sends the pin forward rapidly. It is usually at rest behind the bolt face on spring tension

Working with Ithaca's, renowned for their 'slam fire' "feature" gives me the following insight; During the mid to late '70's the original trigger assembly on the Model 37 was modified in two distinct ways to eliminate the Slam fire. For civilian guns this entailed removing the 2nd sear which was fired by the action lock once in battery (when the trigger was held pulled) the 'new' action simply allowed the hammer to ride the bolt into battery but it would not fire. You would, in the event of holding the trigger pulled while completing the cycle, end up with a live round in the chamber under a fallen hammer. You would have to cycle again to eject the live round and reload another. The second modification (predominantly for law enforcement use)was more complex and expensive, that of fitting a disconnector. The M37 had until that time the fewest number of parts of any pump gun, which is one of the things I find so interesting about them. I believe that the disconnector mod was to prevent a police officer either having an ND (through slam firing) or an unloaded gun (due to the hammer/bolt ride situation)

To get back to the OP I think this would also be the case with the Affinity so pointing the finger further to the ammunition and a back set primer being struck by the bolt face

Just a thought!

Edited by impala59
spelling doh!
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6 minutes ago, impala59 said:

As an afterthought to this incident, consider this. If the hammer rode the bolt forward (due to not being held by the sear)would there be enough energy to tap the firing pin as the bolt entered battery? I am fairly certain that with the hammer touching the back of the bolt, the pin would not protrude at the front, it is the inertia of the hammer striking the pin that sends the pin forward rapidly. It is usually at rest behind the bolt face on spring tension

Working with Ithaca's, renowned for their 'slam fire' "feature" gives me the following insight; During the mid to late '70's the original trigger assembly on the Model 37 was modified in two distinct ways to eliminate the Slam fire. For civilian guns this entailed removing the 2nd sear which was fired by the action lock once in battery (when the trigger was held pulled) the 'new' action simply allowed the hammer to ride the bolt into battery but it would not fire. You would, in the event of holding the trigger pulled while completing the cycle, end up with a live round in the chamber under a fallen hammer. You would have to cycle again to eject the live round and reload another. The second modification (predominantly for law enforcement use)was more complex and expensive, that of fitting a disconnector. The M37 had until that time the fewest number of parts of any pump gun, which is one of the things I find so interesting about them. I believe that the disconnector mod was to prevent a police officer either having an ND (through slam firing) or an unloaded gun (due to the hammer/bolt ride situation)

To get back to the OP I think this would also be the case with the Affinity so pointing the finger further to the ammunition and a back set primer being struck by the bolt face

Just a thought!

Well thought out and in addition the round that fired was presumably wholly enclosed within the chamber with the bolt fully forward and locked.

Otherwise I cannot see how it could happen.

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3 hours ago, Westley said:

I have been using an auto in this manner for some 55 years, I have yet to have any mishaps. I have explained above, with regards to any second shot.  It is the 'slamming' of the bolt during the initial loading that would cause any issues. The gun would be around waist height, possibly not held too securely and where would the barrel be pointing  ?  My barrel points at the ground some 20 feet in front of me and I can feel that the bolt has closed fully AND locked, with less chance of the 'slam' causing an accidental discharge.

I have only had autos 50 years and just like you i have never had issues, but i send it home under its own steam overtime never had a problem.

If its slam firing on first loading it can slam fire on second or subsequent firings, every time it cycles its slamming home, its your choice what you do and i explained why i do what i do along with 99% of the other semi auto shooters in the world. If like this rouge Franchi a guns slam firing it is for a reason it could be any number of things bur in firing pin hole a little swarf binding pin spring rotary bolt issue or any number of things i have not thought about. It could well never do it again in its life because it cleared the metal swarf that was there from new, will never know. But a good look at by the importer could reveal the problem if there was one with the gun. 

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