Game days? How much is justifiable?

[wildfowler.250]

So I was looking at organising a driven day as it’s something I never do,(used to do syndicates). So looking at one or two better known places and they’re advertising 500 bird days! To me, that’s obscene. Costs aside, 100 sounds like a nice day and 200 a lot. Regardless of birds going to a game dealer, mass volumes like this in one day can’t be a good image for out sport?

 

[Rim Fire]

On a paying shoot it is possible you will shoot 100 or 200 birds first drive

Edited February 16, 2019 by Rim Fire

[wildfowler.250]

That’s pretty grim though? I mean, when you cant remember each individual shot, does it not start to lose all meaning? Surely you can have a great day out, plenty of good shots with 200 hundred birds - half of what these places are taking?

Edited February 16, 2019 by wildfowler.250

[Jonno243]

We organise an awful lot of driven shooting each year (running 4 of our own syndicates, plus additional corporate and group bookings) and are finding an increasing reluctance on the part of many estates to offer what they term "smaller bag" driven days. Just a few years back a 100 bird day was not a problem, nowadays it seems that many estates are stipulating a 150 bag minimum.

From a commercial point of view I can see their logic. It "costs" the same (in terms of beaters / pickers up / running costs etc) to run a 100 bird day as a 500 bird day, thus they are seeing more "profit" on a bigger day.

From a personal point of view I tend to agree with you. The thought of a 500 bird day at pheasant or partridge does nothing for me...

Edited February 16, 2019 by Jonno243
Spelling...

[sabel25]

31 minutes ago, wildfowler.250 said:

That’s pretty grim though? I mean, when you cant remember each individual shot, does it not start to lose all meaning? Surely you can have a great day out, plenty of good shots with 200 hundred birds - half of what these places are taking?

Your right

We have a roaming syndicate where we take such days on diferent estates 100 to 150 bird days  Sometimes it's a no bag count day and we still shoot much the same because we are not out to slaughter

As such we can pick up two or three days shooting for the price paid for one 500 bird day and we get to travel to diferent places in North east and Scotland

Some syndicate shooters have joined us on occasions and think it's great going to diferent estates instead of the same one each time out

Plus as the bag is relatiely low all the birds are dispursed among the guns and beaters Nothing wasted

[wildfowler.250]

1 hour ago, Jonno243 said:

We organise an awful lot of driven shooting each year (running 4 of our own syndicates, plus additional corporate and group bookings) and are finding an increasing reluctance on the part of many estates to offer what they term "smaller bag" driven days. Just a few years back a 100 bird day was not a problem, nowadays it seems that many estates are stipulating a 150 bag minimum.

From a commercial point of view I can see their logic. It "costs" the same (in terms of beaters / pickers up / running costs etc) to run a 100 bird day as a 500 bird day, thus they are seeing more "profit" on a bigger day.

From a personal point of view I tend to agree with you. The thought of a 500 bird day at pheasant or partridge does nothing for me...

Financially I can understand that and to some extent, factors like paying the same number of staff I hadn’t appreciated . Appreciate that it’s not your thing either. It’s just a shame that money comes into it rather than ethics

1 hour ago, sabel25 said:

Your right

We have a roaming syndicate where we take such days on diferent estates 100 to 150 bird days  Sometimes it's a no bag count day and we still shoot much the same because we are not out to slaughter

As such we can pick up two or three days shooting for the price paid for one 500 bird day and we get to travel to diferent places in North east and Scotland

Some syndicate shooters have joined us on occasions and think it's great going to diferent estates instead of the same one each time out

Plus as the bag is relatiely low all the birds are dispursed among the guns and beaters Nothing wasted

That sounds ideal in all aspects to be honest

[snow white]

Normal price round here is £36-38 a bird so times by 100 works out 3600-3800 divide by say nine guns is £400 each or £422 each that’s on 100 bird day.

I much prefer 150 to 200 bird days I can pick my birds as you get more over you.

[figgy]

Snow White that's great picking your birds so long as you know the other guns are of the same mind.

There are plenty of greedy guns on some days I've been on in past years.

I like 100 bird days with 8 or 10 friends.  Most days I've been on with that small bag number your not on the big drives and they don't use as many beaters.

[Walker570]

Pull up Richard Gray   Affordable Days.  I have shot with his operation on 12 days this last season and have had the bag or slightly more on each day apart from one where we where about 10 birds short. The days varied between 100 to 125/30 bird days and where well run. All in north to mid Lincolnshire.  I have found him to be an honest broker.

  I agree about big days, not my scene and I can spread my cash over many more enjoyable days between 80 to 130 birds.   I am looking forward to being part of the small six gun syndicate up at Oswestry just shooting 30-40 birds this next season.    If I want to burn that many cartridges then I will go clay shooting.  Part of my day is seeing old friends and enjoying the 'Scene'.  I don't have to kill something to enjoy myself and in addition the anticipation on a drive as to whether the birds will fly to your peg or not, is part of the thrill. 

I took part in a make believe day last summer and have booked for the same venue this year.  It was a good time between friends and most enjoyable but I wouldn't like to do it more than the once a year.

[JohnfromUK]

1 hour ago, Walker570 said:

If I want to burn that many cartridges then I will go clay shooting.  Part of my day is seeing old friends and enjoying the 'Scene'.  I don't have to kill something to enjoy myself and in addition the anticipation on a drive as to whether the birds will fly to your peg or not, is part of the thrill. 

Exactly this.^^

I am in a small farm based shoot locally.  We typically shoot a mixed bag of 50-80 and have a wonderful time.  I have known some of those present for well over 50 years.  I enjoy being out and having a guest shoot in 'my' place as well.

Edited February 16, 2019 by JohnfromUK

[Scully]

Commercial shoots exist for a reason. If you don't like shooting big bags then the answer is simple, don't do it, but to criticise others for doing so just winds me up, especially when those people bring 'ethics' or morals into the conversation. Whether you're shooting 100 bird days or 400 bird days, you are doing it for your own entertainment, nothing more nor less. If anyone on here isn't shooting birds because they enjoy it then I'd seriously like to know why they're doing it.

While you're in the act of doing so I really don't think you have any claim to a higher moral ground than anyone else, and certainly in no position to criticise. 

Our local shoot caters for parties which pay for anything from 150 bird days ( and they'll return the next day for another 150 bird day ) up to around the 500 mark. It is a COMMERCIAL SHOOT; it's a business. There are shoots not too far away catering for much bigger bags. If you're not keen then hand in your tickets and join LACS. 

[stagboy]

11 minutes ago, Scully said:

. Whether you're shooting 100 bird days or 400 bird days, you are doing it for your own entertainment, nothing more nor less. I

 

Yes, but the relatively small number of big baggers are saturating the game meat market, meaning that many more moderate -sized shoots - which provide shooting days for many, many more people, of course - are suffering the consequences of not being able to sell their game. In short, the greed few are spoiling it for the moderate majority. 

Edited February 16, 2019 by stagboy

[sako751sg]

We usually take a couple of days to treat ourselves to something different and enjoy it very much.

No huge bags but some good drives and remember one where I decked 14 birds which was unbelievable considering the price.

Rest of the season delighted just walking about on various farms where I've set up feeders and get great days from that too.

[snow white]

The one shoot here is a two hundred bird days the guns are not greedy we all pick nice birds if somebody take a bird that is not sporting he gets some ribbing it’s a good crowed.

 

[scolopax]

I have a big commercial shoot a few miles away, the choice is either a 300 or a 500 bird day, (the owners own days are far bigger). Two parties out most days, a very slick and well organised shoot but nothing like anything I have ever seen before. Drives done on successive days were not even pushed through to, or near, the flushing point, the head keeper stopped each drive when he judged enough shots had been fired. I am still in two minds whether I think shoots like this are a good thing or not, a lot of money is spent and a lot of money is earnt.

 

 

Edited February 17, 2019 by scolopax

[Walker570]

The word is that prices will rise this next season, by how much it is difficult to say but I would guess £30 or less is going to be a real bargain with £35 being more of a base price rising to a £40 average with some up market shoots getting close to £50 a bird.

If that is so then it will probably halve the number of days I will take and I am not sure there are enough guns out there willing to spend the money to replace those like myself who have a limited amount to spend on their shooting.  I am at an age now where my walked up and walk and stand days are over, which I miss greatly.  The only game bird shooting I can take part in are fully driven days.

 

 

[Nmb]

I don’t know whether I would like to shoot a 500 bird day but being a sad person id love to see that many birds flying over the guns and to see from the beaters perspective what the drives looks like and how they manage to get flush after flush. 

I wonder how many birds some of these places put down? I remember asking the owner of a fairly big estate up here and all he said was “enough”!

[wildfowler.250]

Cheers guys, interesting views and nice to see most people prefer the smaller days

13 hours ago, Scully said:

Commercial shoots exist for a reason. If you don't like shooting big bags then the answer is simple, don't do it, but to criticise others for doing so just winds me up, especially when those people bring 'ethics' or morals into the conversation. Whether you're shooting 100 bird days or 400 bird days, you are doing it for your own entertainment, nothing more nor less. If anyone on here isn't shooting birds because they enjoy it then I'd seriously like to know why they're doing it.

While you're in the act of doing so I really don't think you have any claim to a higher moral ground than anyone else, and certainly in no position to criticise. 

Our local shoot caters for parties which pay for anything from 150 bird days ( and they'll return the next day for another 150 bird day ) up to around the 500 mark. It is a COMMERCIAL SHOOT; it's a business. There are shoots not too far away catering for much bigger bags. If you're not keen then hand in your tickets and join LACS. 

You’re entitled to your opinion but I don’t agree with it. To set the record straight, I’ve never actually paid for a driven days shooting. Years ago, on a couple of rare occasions, I went to load for the old man - 100 bird days. Not to kick other people as I would consider booking a small day but at the time I thought the whole thing was very artificial.

You still get the same ‘day’ from a smaller day. Same lunch, craic and enjoyment of the countryside. I can easily use 10 birds up at the end of a shoot day - roughly what you’d take on a 100 bird day. I’ve had good days roost shooting ect where anything up to ~ 10 birds I can remember. Beyond this, from a game shooting point of view I’d just be pulling a trigger for numbers which is what clay shooting should be for.

Edited February 17, 2019 by wildfowler.250
Spelling

[grahamch]

The more l hear and think about driven shooting and large bags the more l wonder about the morality, ethics and acceptababilty of driven shooting. We hear repeatedly of birds being dumped and there being no real market for shot pheasants.

Huge cost and big bags will be our undoing, especially if we get a left wing government.

I for one am wondering if l should carry one or pack up and do something ekse.

[Old farrier]

Lots of negative stuff here 

on the plus side 

plenty of you go picking up and beating on the big shoots along with loading and driving the game carts beaters wagons and the gun bus 

you also get the beaters shoots and the pigeon/vermin shoots 

i wonder where we would be if there was more money in growing carrots and all the covers and copses were torn out for the growing of vegetables 

The big shoots keep the costs of the small ones down plenty of birds going over the boundary to the small ones 

as a aside don’t agree with the alleged dumping of birds that are fit to eat but I don’t agree with trawlers dumping tons of fish when they get over there quota either 

all the best 

of 

[Terry2016]

The size of big bag days does not matter, a 1000 in a day or a 1000 in a season its still 1000 birds after all. (not that i have ever shot a thousand birds in a day or been on a shoot that does) but i believe what matters to me is that the birds are reared correctly, shot humanly where possible, picked and used for consumption.

My view is this, the bigger estates provide more managed land, and from that comes a proven track record of improved conservation benefits, providing economical benefits to the estate and local community.  Smaller shoots can deliver the very same on a smaller scale if done to best practice standards.

There is nothing wrong with either, in fact both are great for the countryside if done correctly.

Its really a personal choice and in many cases if you can afford it.

For me its really about making sure that any shoot I attend follows best practice before and after the shoot if they do not.. I will not attend simple.

Edited February 17, 2019 by Terry2016

[Scully]

21 hours ago, stagboy said:

Yes, but the relatively small number of big baggers are saturating the game meat market, meaning that many more moderate -sized shoots - which provide shooting days for many, many more people, of course - are suffering the consequences of not being able to sell their game. In short, the greed few are spoiling it for the moderate majority. 

And you're sure of all that are you? 

7 hours ago, Nmb said:

I don’t know whether I would like to shoot a 500 bird day but being a sad person id love to see that many birds flying over the guns and to see from the beaters perspective what the drives looks like and how they manage to get flush after flush. 

I wonder how many birds some of these places put down? I remember asking the owner of a fairly big estate up here and all he said was “enough”!

I don't know of many keepers who would divulge how many birds they release. 

Edited February 17, 2019 by Scully

[Scully]

6 hours ago, wildfowler.250 said:

Cheers guys, interesting views and nice to see most people prefer the smaller days

You’re entitled to your opinion but I don’t agree with it. To set the record straight, I’ve never actually paid for a driven days shooting. Years ago, on a couple of rare occasions, I went to load for the old man - 100 bird days. Not to kick other people as I would consider booking a small day but at the time I thought the whole thing was very artificial.

You still get the same ‘day’ from a smaller day. Same lunch, craic and enjoyment of the countryside. I can easily use 10 birds up at the end of a shoot day - roughly what you’d take on a 100 bird day. I’ve had good days roost shooting ect where anything up to ~ 10 birds I can remember. Beyond this, from a game shooting point of view I’d just be pulling a trigger for numbers which is what clay shooting should be for.

But it's not my opinion, it's fact. Commercial shoots exist for a reason, and it's a business...fact. 

I think our small syndicates biggest bag day was around the fifty mark, and the last one of the season just to say got into double figures, and I've known one person shoot the entire bag when we returned seven birds for the day. But we aren't in it for the numbers. We're in it because we enjoy being out shooting with like minded people, whatever the weather and whatever the bag.

On a big commercial shoot on which I beat the keepers day returned around the 300 mark, but some let days prior to this were returning around 4 to 5 hundred. I find it extremely hypocritical of those who condone their own choice of shooting but feel justified in criticising the choice of others. We're all killing for entertainment ( nothing is forcing you to pull that trigger ) and like I've said many times before, if you're not enjoying it, stop doing it. Simple. 

[Scully]

6 hours ago, grahamch said:

The more l hear and think about driven shooting and large bags the more l wonder about the morality, ethics and acceptababilty of driven shooting. We hear repeatedly of birds being dumped and there being no real market for shot pheasants. Yes, you hear of dumped birds but where is the evidence? You can point your finger at the recent case in Leicestershire but do you know the facts behind the headlines? 

Huge cost and big bags will be our undoing, especially if we get a left wing government. If we get a left wing government then possibly yes, it would be our undoing, but not because of big shoots. 

I for one am wondering if l should carry one or pack up and do something ekse. Yes, I think you should take up something else. 

 

[Gordon R]

I don't shoot game - clays only, but cannot fault what Scully says. To pluck an arbitrary maximum "acceptable" bag and criticise others hardly makes sense.