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Tightest patterning cartridge


EMT
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I am hoping the PW massive might be able to help me out here. I have a lovely AYA No.2 which is choked cylinder and 1/4. Can anyone recommend a game cartridge that they have patterned in the past that threw a particularly tight pattern. Fibre only please.  Its got 70mm chambers which is a bonus. I appreciate that it will pattern differently in my gun and the only way to find out is to pattern it myself, but I am looking to try and narrow down the field to maybe half a dozen. Otherwise it is going to cost a small fortune to go and by a box of every combination of make and load of cartridge on the market.

Thanks in advance.

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Within the constraints that you've already mentioned, two stand out - I did this a little while back for a Chapuis and a Webley and Scott. The Hull High Pheasant is one and the other by a country mile is the Gamebore Super Game High Bird. If you're also looking at decoying pigeon and would use 7 shot then the Gamebore fibre Blue Diamond clay cartridge is on a par with the High Bird - Diamond Shot is one size up from marked so 7&1/2  are 7s.

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Just now, wymberley said:

Within the constraints that you've already mentioned, two stand out - I did this a little while back for a Chapuis and a Webley and Scott. The Hull High Pheasant is one and the other by a country mile is the Gamebore Super Game High Bird. If you're also looking at decoying pigeon and would use 7 shot then the Gamebore fibre Blue Diamond clay cartridge is on a par with the High Bird - Diamond Shot is one size up from marked so 7&1/2  are 7s.

Thats great, thank you.

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Did a lot of patterning this january with a Fabarm semi auto my son has, he only had cylinder choke and wanted to get a load for long range crows he was shooting at the time, we tried several brands and in that gun the RCsipe 30gram 6s were the tightest second tightest was winchester super speed .

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Personally I don't think the pheasant/pigeon will notice the difference if it is in the middle of the pattern.  Every gun is going to be that little bit different anyway. We do get a bit anal about chokes.  Of factory cartridges that I use then Hull High Pheasant perform well as do Fiocchi in my 410 but neither come close to my own loads ...but that is my opinion:)

Afraid your going to do as we all have done in the past buy a selection and go and pattern them. Then put the bird in that pattern.

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7 minutes ago, Walker570 said:

 but neither come close to my own loads ...but that is my opinion

Afraid your going to do as we all have done in the past buy a selection and go and pattern them. Then put the bird in that pattern.

Agree you can not beat reloads wads cut like flight control wads give very tight patterns and you can get patterns reliable with such wads.

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4 minutes ago, Fen tiger said:

Agree you can not beat reloads wads cut like flight control wads give very tight patterns and you can get patterns reliable with such wads.

I use felt wads and have regulated my load, checking patterns each slight change until I arrived at the one I use now. My problem is that the word is that Vectan SP3 is going to be difficult to get after 29th March if the EU decide to be awkward. I will be stocking up as soon as I can find some so should be OK for another couple of seasons.

Edited by Walker570
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17 hours ago, EMT said:

I am hoping the PW massive might be able to help me out here. I have a lovely AYA No.2 which is choked cylinder and 1/4. Can anyone recommend a game cartridge that they have patterned in the past that threw a particularly tight pattern. Fibre only please.  Its got 70mm chambers which is a bonus. I appreciate that it will pattern differently in my gun and the only way to find out is to pattern it myself, but I am looking to try and narrow down the field to maybe half a dozen. Otherwise it is going to cost a small fortune to go and by a box of every combination of make and load of cartridge on the market.

Thanks in advance.

Can you list what you can purchase locally so that we have a list to work from, no point in telling you about a shell you cannot get hold of!

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2 hours ago, alastair0903 said:

I would take a chance on RC sipe extreme, they have hardened shot and seem to patter well for me 👍

The twenty bore kicks like a mule with these up the spout.   They shoot well, very well, but my shoulder is now undergoing damage control treatment...

(Silver pigeon gun).

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hello, what do you class as a game cartridge ? 65/70mm 28/29/30g 5/6 shot, your no 2 is a light weight game gun, forget about 70mm chambers, fixed chokes, cylinder and 1/4 which is quite open for a no 2,, what ever cartridge you put in say 6 shot will have a nominal pattern for those chokes and i do not think it would vary much with different makes, a 5 will get a tighter pattern but some might say not ideal for game, a heavier cartridge will have recoil, years ago we use to pattern a no 6 with improved cylinder  to 30 yard and 30inch circle, your cylinder and 1/4  is therefore a 25 yard and 35 yard  range, 5 shot would go out to 40 yard at 1/4 choke, you could try a few makes and see if any difference, my friend uses impacts 6s in his AYA no 2 with improved/half and i have seen him take pheasant at 40 yards, try google on shotgun patterns to various chokes/shot should give you some idea, good luck   

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Thank you for all your help and advice.

When I had them measured there was .002 in the right and .010 in the left so just over cylinder and 1/4. I would normally shoot 1/2 and 1/2 in my O/U and was a bit worried I might have a few gaps in the pattern with the cylinder barrel past 25 yards. 

I will get a few boxes of the cartridges you have all recommended and give them a go. I will try and take some photos and report back with my findings. 

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24 minutes ago, ditchman said:

would i be right in thinking that a slower cartridge would thow a tighter pattern..........?

My home load subsonics dump 90%+ of the shot in a 30" circle @ 40 yards.

(cheers to cookoff and neutron 😎)

factory  super sonic are quite a bit worse (some are alot worse)

12 minutes ago, Smokersmith said:

There’ll be exceptions, but on the whole with similar components .... then yes.

I haven't tried all the available carts so there may be some exceptions.

 

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Guest cookoff013
14 minutes ago, gotgcoalman said:

My home load subsonics dump 90%+ of the shot in a 30" circle @ 40 yards.

(cheers to cookoff and neutron 😎)

factory  super sonic are quite a bit worse (some are alot worse)

I haven't tried all the available carts so there may be some exceptions.

 

that was my patterning experience too.

 

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59 minutes ago, Smokersmith said:

There’ll be exceptions, but on the whole with similar components .... then yes.

:good:

33 minutes ago, gotgcoalman said:

My home load subsonics dump 90%+ of the shot in a 30" circle @ 40 yards.

 

factory  super sonic are quite a bit worse (some are alot worse)

 

 

In the words of the song, "you can't have one without the other". Yep, the pattern is critical but it is still no good without penetration. The biggest factor for penetration is velocity so, as ever, there is a compomise needed - sufficient of both pattern and velocity - too much bias towards either does not work well.

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