Scully Posted February 19, 2019 Report Share Posted February 19, 2019 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said: I take your point about acid rain, holes in the ozone layer etc. but there seems to be a bit of boiling frog syndrome going on here. I honestly thought the debate around climate change had been concluded but it's been a few years since I've posted here on the pigeonwatch time warp. I venture sir that you are manipulating facts here to suit your agenda as I believe is also the case based on your response on the ISIS thread. 1 hour ago, Raja Clavata said: The first step in finding a solution to an issue of this magnitude and complexity is agreeing the problem exists. The second is accepting that in order to address it there is likely to be pain for all of us that are part of the problem (I only mention this point in response to your point about taxation). What we need to be mindful of is the fact that people still exist who believe the earth is flat, that the holocaust didn't happen and - in honour of your profile pic - think that 52 percent is a conclusive Brexit result... And it is exactly such derisory and insulting remarks as this by those who claim they know better which finds us at odds with each other. When I was at school in the 1970's, we had a geography teacher who bored us to tears with his repetitive chorus each time it snowed of..'just hope it stops, because we're heading for another ice age!' Twenty years or so ago it was all global 'warming', and now we have climate change. Is it surprising we're a tad cynical? On my local news last night, Newcastle council is proposing a £12.50 levy for each vehicle to drive into the city, more for wagons in an effort to gain cleaner air . Now if I decide to pay it where does that money go? We're either polluting the air or we're not; but if you're prepared to pay it doesn't matter! Is it me? Edited February 19, 2019 by Scully Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted February 19, 2019 Report Share Posted February 19, 2019 Just now, Raja Clavata said: Sure, you appear to have already arrived at a judicial outcome regarding whether or not she will receive a custodial sentence. You've implied she's more likely to get a compensation payout, human rights infringement and you then appear to suggest the EU are responsible for all this, or at least that's some people would have it. I have gone by the 450 returning jihadis that have already come back, 40 have faced prosecution, most of those did not see a jail term. As a non combatant, I find it highly likely she will not either. If she is blocked or delayed from returning to the UK , it can reasonably be ascertained that, as a UK citizen, her human rights have been infringed ? Therefore a compo payout is also 'highly likely' And as I clearly stated, 'some people' will blame the EU and ECHR for the fact that nothing can be done to stop any of this. Please feel free to blow holes in my opinion on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted February 19, 2019 Report Share Posted February 19, 2019 Just now, Yellow Bear said: As are you with a high profile in electric cars - there is no one without an agenda based on their wants and background beliefs yourself included. Thanks for judging me sir! FWIW I drive a 3 litre bi-turbo diesel, to be honest my primary focus is on autonomy and connectivity but in my opinion there's a number of issues with electric cars not least the lack of an holistic approach around making provision for electricity supply and demand as well as issues around what happens with the end of life of batteries for example. Of course you are right about agendas, biases and background beliefs and none of us are perfect, far from it. Few are aware of the effects of the various cognitive biases and fewer still self-aware enough to know which they are personally susceptible to and therefore requiring mindset adjustment / self regulation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted February 19, 2019 Report Share Posted February 19, 2019 4 minutes ago, Scully said: And it is exactly such derisory and insulting remarks as this by those who claim they know better which finds us at odds with each other. When I was at school in the 1970's, we had a geography teacher who bored us to tears with his repetitive chorus each time it snowed of..'just hope it stops, because we're heading for another ice age!' Twenty years or so ago it was all global 'warming', and now we have climate change. Is it surprising we're a tad cynical? On my local news last night, Newcastle council is proposing a £12.50 levy for each vehicle to drive into the city, more for wagons in an effort to gain cleaner air . Now if I decide to pay it where does that money go? We're either polluting the air or we're not; but if you're prepared to pay it doesn't matter! Is it me? Neither comment were intended to be derisory or insulting and I would certainly not post something here that I would not say in person, so I apologise if that's the case. I agree about this notion of fear being used as a means to control and tax the masses but as far as I can tell climate change is very real. I get your point about the levy, a lot of this is like a PR stunt where something needs to be seen to be done and if it generates a bit of revenue it's a bonus to them. It's a bit like when your checkin bag is overweight so the airline make you take stuff out your checked luggage and stuff it in your carry on bag, just worse perhaps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellow Bear Posted February 19, 2019 Report Share Posted February 19, 2019 5 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said: Thanks for judging me sir! FWIW I drive a 3 litre bi-turbo diesel, to be honest my primary focus is on autonomy and connectivity but in my opinion there's a number of issues with electric cars not least the lack of an holistic approach around making provision for electricity supply and demand as well as issues around what happens with the end of life of batteries for example. Of course you are right about agendas, biases and background beliefs and none of us are perfect, far from it. Few are aware of the effects of the various cognitive biases and fewer still self-aware enough to know which they are personally susceptible to and therefore requiring mindset adjustment / self regulation. My apologies if you consider yourself unfairly judged but " I have a pretty high profile role in electric, connected and autonomous vehicles in the UK" tells me, regardless of what you drive, you have a vested interest in promoting electric vehicles. As a worker in a power associated industry most of my working life I am fully aware that the required increase in distribution infrastructure to overcome any additional requirement is so expensive as to be unlikely to happen in the foreseeable future. I am also aware that, unless things have changed dramatically over the last 4/5 years the lifetime "cost" of current "renewables" in many cases far exceeds the gain both wrt pollution and finance, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted February 19, 2019 Report Share Posted February 19, 2019 16 minutes ago, Rewulf said: I have gone by the 450 returning jihadis that have already come back, 40 have faced prosecution, most of those did not see a jail term. As a non combatant, I find it highly likely she will not either. If she is blocked or delayed from returning to the UK , it can reasonably be ascertained that, as a UK citizen, her human rights have been infringed ? Therefore a compo payout is also 'highly likely' And as I clearly stated, 'some people' will blame the EU and ECHR for the fact that nothing can be done to stop any of this. Please feel free to blow holes in my opinion on this. I prefer to sticking to blowing holes in foxes 🙂 One of the key points I feel is that the should she or shouldn't she argument is pointless as it's her fundamental right under international humanitarian law to do so. If there really is a chance of a compo payout then that's bonkers, is that really the case? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted February 19, 2019 Report Share Posted February 19, 2019 Just now, Yellow Bear said: My apologies if you consider yourself unfairly judged but " I have a pretty high profile role in electric, connected and autonomous vehicles in the UK" tells me, regardless of what you drive, you have a vested interest in promoting electric vehicles. As a worker in a power associated industry most of my working life I am fully aware that the required increase in distribution infrastructure to overcome any additional requirement is so expensive as to be unlikely to happen in the foreseeable future. I am also aware that, unless things have changed dramatically over the last 4/5 years the lifetime "cost" of current "renewables" in many cases far exceeds the gain both wrt pollution and finance, I honestly don't think I do, I'm a petrol head, my vested interest in e-vehicles would be slowing down their roll-out, if only my role was high profile enough to do that. I'm also pretty cynical about the short-term viability of fully autonomous vehicles to be honest. Connectivity is an absolute nightmare because of all the data and security breaches. Connectivity and autonomy are somewhat tied together, at least for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted February 19, 2019 Report Share Posted February 19, 2019 Just now, Raja Clavata said: One of the key points I feel is that the should she or shouldn't she argument is pointless as it's her fundamental right under international humanitarian law to do so. If there really is a chance of a compo payout then that's bonkers, is that really the case? No one has disputed this. The threat of a legal challenge and associated legal/compo costs IF she is denied, or more specifically delayed entry back to the UK are very real. If her baby catches a disease or injury from continued habitation within the refugee camp, and the delay in bringing her back can be shown to be a contributory factor...the list of possible ways and means is extensive. Do we have a British consul or embassy in Syria, has she asked (as is her right) for assistance ? Has it been denied or delayed ? Who is paying for her lawyer ? Perhaps ,as is his experience, he knows there is a pay day at the end of all this ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted February 19, 2019 Report Share Posted February 19, 2019 Quote Of course you are right about agendas, biases and background beliefs and none of us are perfect, far from it. Few are aware of the effects of the various cognitive biases and fewer still self-aware enough to know which they are personally susceptible to and therefore requiring mindset adjustment / self regulation. The view from the high ground? It did make me laugh. Any chance of the result on the debate about climate change? Rewulf - her lawyer is doing a freebie. We have no Consul or Embassy in Syria that I am aware of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted February 19, 2019 Report Share Posted February 19, 2019 15 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said: Neither comment were intended to be derisory or insulting and I would certainly not post something here that I would not say in person, so I apologise if that's the case. I agree about this notion of fear being used as a means to control and tax the masses but as far as I can tell climate change is very real. I get your point about the levy, a lot of this is like a PR stunt where something needs to be seen to be done and if it generates a bit of revenue it's a bonus to them. It's a bit like when your checkin bag is overweight so the airline make you take stuff out your checked luggage and stuff it in your carry on bag, just worse perhaps. Fair enough. I can't deny the seasons seem to be changing, but I remain unconvinced as to the reasons claimed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted February 19, 2019 Report Share Posted February 19, 2019 1 minute ago, Gordon R said: Rewulf - her lawyer is doing a freebie. We have no Consul or Embassy in Syria that I am aware of. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestonSalop Posted February 19, 2019 Report Share Posted February 19, 2019 Is the climate changing - I reckon so. Anything we can do about it? No, nothing, buggerall. And that's because there are a lot of billionaires who stand to lose a few quid if any substantial changes are made to the way in which the global economy operates. Whether I chuck a plastic item in the wrong bin is inconsequential in the greater scheme of things. Will I buy an electric car? No, partly because overall it pollutes more than a good diesel does. We (i.e.ordinary people) are powerless in practical terms. The politicians have too many vested interests and any outside the current system who become politicos will inevitably be influenced by the economic establishment when they join. Fact of life. We are ********. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewulf Posted February 19, 2019 Report Share Posted February 19, 2019 Just now, Scully said: I can't deny the seasons seem to be changing, but I remain unconvinced as to the reasons claimed. Yes they do, but it seems to be more about earlier or later summers and winters, topsy turvy weather. I want to see someone point out steadily increasing temperatures globally, and a specific sea level rise that is not down to erosion or plate shift. Climate does change, sometimes very severely , mini ice ages and the warming during the end of the first millennium (maunder minimum ?) neither event can be put down to man made activities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted February 19, 2019 Report Share Posted February 19, 2019 3 minutes ago, Gordon R said: The view from the high ground? It did make me laugh. Any chance of the result on the debate about climate change? Rewulf - her lawyer is doing a freebie. We have no Consul or Embassy in Syria that I am aware of. Not high ground sir but enlightenment and self awareness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon R Posted February 19, 2019 Report Share Posted February 19, 2019 Quote Not high ground sir but enlightenment and self awareness. Given your post - how would you know? Any chance of that conclusive outcome on climate change. I have definitely missed it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted February 19, 2019 Report Share Posted February 19, 2019 42 minutes ago, Gordon R said: Given your post - how would you know? Any chance of that conclusive outcome on climate change. I have definitely missed it. Exactly which aspect of the climate change debate are you trying to snare me on Gordon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walker570 Posted February 19, 2019 Report Share Posted February 19, 2019 On 17/02/2019 at 09:38, panoma1 said: Yes but this absence suits their agenda! These kids are being encouraged and used to further someone's agenda, I'm not saying the protests are not relevant, but I question whether they really are the kids own thoughts, or is someone indoctrinating them?.......the animal rights nutters are doing the same to young people via social and other media. I believe these parasites are infecting the minds of the young, the inexperienced and the ignorant! For their own purposes and to suit their own political agenda! 100% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old man Posted February 19, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2019 On 18/02/2019 at 10:21, henry d said: Not exactly a fortnight in Benidorm is it? No, but presumably the same legal responsibility to keep them safe within school hours applies? I would certainly be asking sharp questions if one of mine had been let out without parental knowledge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpringDon Posted February 19, 2019 Report Share Posted February 19, 2019 1 hour ago, Gordon R said: Given your post - how would you know? Any chance of that conclusive outcome on climate change. I have definitely missed it. At what point would regard it as conclusive? Surely this is something that can only definitely decided in hindsight. I think if we are already seeing the effects of manmade climate change then it’s probably too late. there is no model or spare planet no which theories can be tested. The consequences of doing nothing and being wrong are far worse than doing something and being wrong. Whilst history shows that the world has been hotter, it was very different and (arguably) would not support the “modern” world. There is no period that shows a comparable rate of change (other than the catastrophic). it is profoundly depressing to still be saying this. I guess this why we are doomed and children will reap the reward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbie to this Posted February 19, 2019 Report Share Posted February 19, 2019 Which one is it these days, Global Cooling Global Warming Oh no wait they call it climate change now don't they It is just another manifestation used to TAX us. IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted February 19, 2019 Report Share Posted February 19, 2019 So if we now have bass appearing in numbers further and further north a lack of cod in the south east and a steady increase in tuna, trigger fish, and other exotics would that be a possible indicator of a warming sea? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabel25 Posted February 19, 2019 Report Share Posted February 19, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, Raja Clavata said: I prefer to sticking to blowing holes in foxes 🙂 One of the key points I feel is that the should she or shouldn't she argument is pointless as it's her fundamental right under international humanitarian law to do so. If there really is a chance of a compo payout then that's bonkers, is that really the case? Forgive me here but what is all this to do with the OP Seems to me you have highjacked someone elses thread to put across your own opinions on a one man campain which seems to be jumping between two differing threads Re this above and other threads by you If you are so uptight to save the planet then start your own bloody thread and stop piggy backing on others But don'nt start in this lttle country (and using young influentual school kids either as their teachers did ) that has one of the cleanest industrial industries world wide Start off in China via Japan. India, Brazi,l Mexico, and Southern America then swing by Egypt and have a look at the **** they churn out and dispurse into the air and waterways Then turn on the diesel manufacturers that can make cleaner fuel but refuse too due to profitering Food for thought? Look forward to YOUR OWN thread Edited February 19, 2019 by sabel25 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted February 19, 2019 Report Share Posted February 19, 2019 18 minutes ago, sabel25 said: Forgive me here but what is all this to do with the OP Seems to me you have highjacked someone elses thread to put across your own opinions on a one man campain which seems to be jumping between two differing threads Re this above and other threads by you If you are so uptight to save the planet then start your own bloody thread and stop piggy backing on others But don'nt start in this lttle country (and using young influentual school kids either as their teachers did ) that has one of the cleanest industrial industries world wide Start off in China via Japan. India, Brazi,l Mexico, and Southern America then swing by Egypt and have a look at the **** they churn out and dispurse into the air and waterways Then turn on the diesel manufacturers that can make cleaner fuel but refuse too due to profitering Food for thought? Look forward to YOUR OWN thread my bad for mixing the threads, I hold my hands up for that mistake PS - i do like the irony of your comment about being up tight given the tone of the rest of your post... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabel25 Posted February 19, 2019 Report Share Posted February 19, 2019 2 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said: my bad for mixing the threads, I hold my hands up for that mistake PS - i do like the irony of your comment about being up tight given the tone of the rest of your post... As i say start your own thread as your remarks as you have owned up too are not related to the OP on this thread With all due respect Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Clavata Posted February 19, 2019 Report Share Posted February 19, 2019 Just now, sabel25 said: As i say start your own thread as your remarks as you have owned up too are not related to the OP on this thread With all due respect With all due respect I mixed the thread on one post in this thread, kinda lost about your start your own thread comments Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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