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Springer vs pcp?

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3 hours ago, bruno22rf said:

"Will we ever see Chinese guns dominate the UK market - not a hope in Hell" mmmmmm - If I told you 10 years ago that our car market would be flooded with carp Korean cars  you wouldn't have believed me - likewise the Early Japanese motorcycles were something to point and laugh at 30 years ago. The Chinese have the Engineering ability and financial might to take the Lions share of the market if, or when, they decide to.They can buy parts from outside suppliers in massive quantities thus cheaper but they will persevere in manufacturing parts themselves until they get it right - labour is cheaper than we could ever dream of so the West could not compete. When you consider that you can buy, say, a pair of Shorts, from a Chinese company and have them posted half way around the world (often faster than if you buy in the UK) for about a third of the price of a UK supplier, you have to admire their retail might.P.S.  bought a one piece mount from the bay of plenty about 6 months ago - £7 inc shipping from China and it's as good as any I have ever bought here.

 

1 hour ago, Whitebridges said:

I mentioned "Chinese guns" no mention of Japanese or Korean products but i guess i can see where you are coming from. 

I retired last year but prior to that spent ten years doing business with Chinese businesses. It was to do with high end audio and video technology.  In a normal year i visited China 2-3 times a year, usually for ten days or more at a time and visited many many factories and business centres in Beijing, Shenzen, Dongguan, Hong Kong to name but a few. 

I have seen at first hand the superb manufacturing facilities in China. One especially sticks in the mind, a mobile phone business which made 3 million 'phones a month........on machines and plant made in Germany ! 

The best guess estimate at the moment is a Chinese population of 1.4 billion compared with 350m in Europe 370m in the USA. The powers that be have definitely focused businesses in China to concentrate on their domestic market, so this is what will happen. 

As for airguns, there is no domestic market in China, the masses are not allowed guns (some are but i said masses).   At the moment there is a minute export market but once Brexit measures kick in and hard new tax legislations enforced i think the Chinese will be up against it in our market, however i respect your opinion.                  

 

             

big difference between air guns and cars, for me there is next to no market for air guns in this country which is why i don't think cheaper imports will take over, I've seen machines and product lines move to China and India because there is money to be made from the cheap labour.

Not many moving parts to go wrong on a mount Bruno, can't Imagine the Chinese or Indian manufacturers ever meeting the standards of Air arms or BSA.

And I'm always surprised that air guns are still being developed, look at The FX rifles, must take some investment to come up with those.

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Moving parts in a mount has no bearing on my point Mice - the point is that they can match Sports Match in product quality then ship the item round the world for a total price practically the same as just the postage price of a UK bought item. If they can make cars then they can, sure as heck, make Airguns it's simply a case of economics - when the time is right, and if the market is worth the investment, they will start making world class Airguns. Artemis P-15 - titanium cylinder and regulated for just over £300 (first imports) worth mentioning - few niggles but they will be sorted as the model ages - lets see the likes of Daystate compete with that.

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Posted (edited)

That's exactly why the likes of daystate bsa .airarms .fx etc. 

Make highend guns  .they simply cannot compete at the budget end of the market .

Also the mark up on a £1000 plus gun is greater than on a £300 one .so you can sell less and still stay in business .

Thats exactly the reason the above manufacturers  are making these  £1000 guns .that and the growing want by customers for more features and better performance. 

 

Edited by Ultrastu

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FX sell guns world wide. Others do to but FX is getting bigger in the USA and airguns don't need a fire arms cert in the USA so a 40 or 50 cal airgun can be bought without any constraints. 

The European market is controlled to poor power levels. 20ftlb would be more usable without fac regs.

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On 16/04/2019 at 22:33, Ultrastu said:

That's exactly why the likes of daystate bsa .airarms .fx etc. 

Make highend guns  .they simply cannot compete at the budget end of the market .

Also the mark up on a £1000 plus gun is greater than on a £300 one .so you can sell less and still stay in business .

Thats exactly the reason the above manufacturers  are making these  £1000 guns .that and the growing want by customers for more features and better performance. 

 

A spot on and overflowing with insight ! 

Who wants to sell and support a Chinese gun at £300 and earn X£'s when they might as well sell a £1000 plus gun and earn 3xX£'s ?    

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On 17/04/2019 at 16:50, figgy said:

FX sell guns world wide. Others do to but FX is getting bigger in the USA and airguns don't need a fire arms cert in the USA so a 40 or 50 cal airgun can be bought without any constraints. 

The European market is controlled to poor power levels. 20ftlb would be more usable without fac regs.

They seem to be more and more popular in the US and rightly seem to be focusing in that export market which seems flooded with the new Dreamline which are like hen's teeth here in the UK probably because of out power limit legislation.      

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On ‎16‎/‎04‎/‎2019 at 22:33, Ultrastu said:

That's exactly why the likes of daystate bsa .airarms .fx etc. 

Make highend guns  .they simply cannot compete at the budget end of the market .

Also the mark up on a £1000 plus gun is greater than on a £300 one .so you can sell less and still stay in business .

Thats exactly the reason the above manufacturers  are making these  £1000 guns .that and the growing want by customers for more features and better performance. 

 

 

4 minutes ago, Whitebridges said:

A spot on and overflowing with insight ! 

Who wants to sell and support a Chinese gun at £300 and earn X£'s when they might as well sell a £1000 plus gun and earn 3xX£'s ?    

See now that makes sense, my rapid is twenty odd years old and still spot on, quality built product doing what it was designed to do, i imagine you guys have bsa, air arms and so on doing similar.

Can't imagine a bargain Chinese import doing the same, but if they let someone start out with a cheap gun then great.

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Is your rapid bog standard from the box 

I've heard lots of lads having to have bits made or altered over the years. That's the main reason I wouldn't own a pcp again. Always a small problem 

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Posted (edited)

My MPR is standard, the one I'm buying is also standard.

Mine's 10yr old just going for its 1st service. Doesn't need it, just want to be sure it's working optimally. 

Pcp

Just saying. 

Without reading the entire topic try a pcp but if you're happy with the HW and accurate with it I'd stick with it with a mild tune up

Edited by Mr.C

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12 hours ago, washerboy said:

Is your rapid bog standard from the box 

I've heard lots of lads having to have bits made or altered over the years. That's the main reason I wouldn't own a pcp again. Always a small problem 

Yes mate, yet to change a seal. From what I've read on the rapid forum they can be improved and are easy to work on, but plenty of folk probably mess who shouldn't.

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2 hours ago, washerboy said:

For £800-£1000 i would want a gun that can't be improved. 

I know what you mean, but twenty plus years with no problems, i think that's a fair return on my money.

The improvements I've read about are things like regulators, quick fill adaptors, spring guides. Some folk have remachined parts in titanium because they can! You won't get that being done on a cheap foreign import.

look how often folk say to degrease debur and polish any of the break barrel rifles available to improve performance, that's down to poor manufacturing or assembly, most things can be improved it doesn't mean they need to be.

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I think every gun ever made and ever will be made can be improved to the taste of the individual user. 

I think that on balance a  pcp provides precision far easier than a spring gun but it's not as satisfying when you know how much easier it is to shoot accurately over even a tuned Springer. 

I had a peek on guntrader earlier and saw rapids are quite reasonable these days, particularly if fac. May have to get one.....

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5 minutes ago, GingerCat said:

I think every gun ever made and ever will be made can be improved to the taste of the individual user. 

I think that on balance a  pcp provides precision far easier than a spring gun but it's not as satisfying when you know how much easier it is to shoot accurately over even a tuned Springer. 

I had a peek on guntrader earlier and saw rapids are quite reasonable these days, particularly if fac. May have to get one.....

Thinking exactly the same. Get a slot put on for fac air. I know where 1 is for £400 (fac). Always wanted a rapid. 

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2 hours ago, GingerCat said:

I think every gun ever made and ever will be made can be improved to the taste of the individual user. 

I think that on balance a  pcp provides precision far easier than a spring gun but it's not as satisfying when you know how much easier it is to shoot accurately over even a tuned Springer. 

I had a peek on guntrader earlier and saw rapids are quite reasonable these days, particularly if fac. May have to get one.....

 

2 hours ago, strimmer_13 said:

Thinking exactly the same. Get a slot put on for fac air. I know where 1 is for £400 (fac). Always wanted a rapid. 

Well worth joining the Rapid 7 forum if you fancy a rapid, more technical knowledge than i know what to do with and guys who can answer any questions you have, plus trusted sellers on the sales section.

The FAC guns that the shops have are definitely cheaper, obviously harder to sell so sit around longer.

Scratch that itch 😁 

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Mice! said:

 

Well worth joining the Rapid 7 forum if you fancy a rapid, more technical knowledge than i know what to do with and guys who can answer any questions you have, plus trusted sellers on the sales section.

The FAC guns that the shops have are definitely cheaper, obviously harder to sell so sit around longer.

Scratch that itch 😁 

Seriously thinking about it, i just bought a fx cyclone, a o/u, a sxs, a single 12, moss 500 today, and got my eye on a semi. I'll sell the o/u I don't use and apply to have my 223 + 308 taken off and fac air and on instead (my land around here aint safe for cf or rimfire half the time) 

Oh sell this falcon when I finally fix the seal that's leaking the ******

1555790934068.jpg

Edited by strimmer_13

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Many years ago, I was into airguns. I went from fx, theoben in the end I bought a new grey import version of a Hw80, had a venomac s1 kit. Put in before it was fired.

From the pure enjoyment,it performs beyond what I ask of it.

Im not going back to pcp. 

I had the chance 25years ago to buy the exact gun, but chose pcp. What a numpty.

That first shot on a rabbit was just sheer joy, 

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