manthing Posted March 10, 2019 Report Share Posted March 10, 2019 Ok Does anyone know of anyone that has asked their relevant organisation to take legal action against a police force for refusal to issue a sgc/fac when they've followed the correct procedure on application /renewal, ie when the police are requiring a medical report but no issues have been noted on the application form? There's a difference between asking for their (the orgs) advice and instructing them to represent you in a court case. As I understand it the orgs can't just do it on their own they have to represent a member, in a court case. They can lodge general complaints and objections, different. So if the reps or anyone on here know of any cases, don't need specific details just numbers and what's a broad outline of the complaint I would appreciate the info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted March 10, 2019 Report Share Posted March 10, 2019 No, most of them appear to capitulate and say "so be it." It will be interesting when someone has the funding to challenge it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver pigeon69 Posted March 10, 2019 Report Share Posted March 10, 2019 Someone should start up a type of "Shooting Legal Aid". We all pay say £5 each a year and anything like the above is taken to court. It could also take the likes of Packham etc to court and sue them for compensation to their members when he is lying and for "defamation of our characters" etc. If he and others like LACS were taken to court a few times and sued they would soon stop lying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobba Posted March 10, 2019 Report Share Posted March 10, 2019 1 hour ago, manthing said: So if the reps or anyone on here know of any cases, don't need specific details just numbers and what's a broad outline of the complaint I would appreciate the info. What do you intend to do with that "info" if you get any? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manthing Posted March 10, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2019 29 minutes ago, Bobba said: What do you intend to do with that "info" if you get any? Not necessarily going to do anything with it. But people berate orgs for not standing up to forces and I'd like to know if anyone has actually instructed their org to take a case on their behalf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted March 10, 2019 Report Share Posted March 10, 2019 (edited) Can't help with the info you seek but, if we look at the other side of the coin, if a representative organisation takes this issue to court, it must be a strong case, and they must win!.......If the case is lost it creates legal precedent...which will be used in future to defeat any other such case! I think I read somewhere? Can't remember where? That the issue of medical checks is coming to a head? The government have undertaken to deal with it in the upcoming 'offensive weapons bill', by making law to replace the current "guidance" they are due to consult on this very soon.....one issue (amongst many I'm sure?) we must watch out for, is an attempt to reopen the banning of large (.50) calibre rifles? Public consultation to open in July! Edited March 10, 2019 by panoma1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manthing Posted March 10, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2019 (edited) I'm also watching the for the upcoming review. If the review sets things in stone then I hope it covers not only medical requirements but also time scales for grants and renewals to be compleated in. The legel precedent thing is a good point. But they have to be set sometime I suppose. Edited March 10, 2019 by manthing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted March 10, 2019 Report Share Posted March 10, 2019 17 minutes ago, manthing said: I'm also watching the for the upcoming review. If the review sets things in stone then I hope it covers not only medical requirements but also time scales for grants and renewals to be compleated in. The legel precedent thing is a good point. But they have to be set sometime I suppose. I predict the legal position will be that as usual...we pay! The only question will be how much! I doubt there will be any benefit to certificate holders? It will deliver an Increase in police powers, no ten year (or longer) certificate, no mandatory time scales on police for certificate application turnover!...........I hope I am proven wrong! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted March 10, 2019 Report Share Posted March 10, 2019 1 hour ago, panoma1 said: I predict the legal position will be that as usualwe pay! The only question will be how much! I doubt there will be any benefit to certificate holders? It will deliver an Increase in police powers, no ten (or longer) certificate, no mandatory time scales on police for certificate application turnover!..........I hope I am proven wrong! I guarantee you are right ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobba Posted March 12, 2019 Report Share Posted March 12, 2019 I have just received my BASC membership renewal docs. Also enclosed is a summary of the BASC Legal Expense Insurance. It covers, inter alia, appeals following a refusal to renew aN SGC or FAC. So, presumably, if a renewal was refused on the grounds that a Doctors report had not been received because the applicant had refused to pay the Doctors fee, then the applicant could use this cover to pay for leagal eagles to fight the case. I suspect that as in all insurance claims the desire not to pay claims would result in a wriggle factor for the computer to say no.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panoma1 Posted March 12, 2019 Report Share Posted March 12, 2019 2 minutes ago, Bobba said: I have just received my BASC membership renewal docs. Also enclosed is a summary of the BASC Legal Expense Insurance. It covers, inter alia, appeals following a refusal to renew aN SGC or FAC. So, presumably, if a renewal was refused on the grounds that a Doctors report had not been received because the applicant had refused to pay the Doctors fee, then the applicant could use this cover to pay for leagal eagles to fight the case. I suspect that as in all insurance claims the desire not to pay claims would result in a wriggle factor for the computer to say no.... I suspect you are right!....the guidance from the home office is not legally binding, certain police forces recognise this and have decided they will not process an application unless a supportive medical report is presented.......a court of law will not give "guidance" legal standing, so the police cannot be found legally in breach (because its only guidance!) in a court of law........however you would be deemed by the insurance company to have refused to comply with police requirements for the grant a certificate!.........So they would probably use this as a reason to refuse support for an appeal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manthing Posted March 13, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2019 So what we're assuming is its OK for people to have a go at the orgs for doing nothing in a situation where there's no legal recourse to a bad situation? Let's hope they take notice of end users needs in the upcoming review. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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