TIGHTCHOKE Posted March 14, 2019 Report Share Posted March 14, 2019 6 hours ago, NoBodyImportant said: I’m in America so I really can’t comment but I really don’t care about the shot size. 8 and 7 shot Federal/Winchester can be bought at the grocery store for 17 cent each so that’s what I shoot. When you get up into 6 shot or bigger it goes to 30 cent - to a dollar. Your comment is as valid as any other, buy cheap, shoot birds within you capability and that of your gun and choke set up and happy days. Here in the UK the price goes up depending on what the manufacturers call their offerings. Cartridges for clays, pigeon, partridge, pheasant and the good old extreme pheasant see the price rise for what is often the same contents in different cases and boxes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted March 14, 2019 Report Share Posted March 14, 2019 TC, that isnt half bad. the manufacturers have some kind of choke hold over the uk. they actually release 26gram 21gram, 19gram, 27gram, 31gram loadings to hoodwink the market. that 1 gram removed from the modern shells is litterally nothing. maybe it saves the manufacturer a pittance over a month of manufacturing. shells are getting more and more european. and is gravitating towards faster and faster shells. there hardly are bad shells thesedays, and the aforementioned loadings do work. but classic 1,1/8oz loads are not too commonplace here, especially in 9-8-7 shotsizes. there appears to be a premium price increase when #6s are used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted March 14, 2019 Report Share Posted March 14, 2019 5 minutes ago, cookoff013 said: TC, that isnt half bad. the manufacturers have some kind of choke hold over the uk. they actually release 26gram 21gram, 19gram, 27gram, 31gram loadings to hoodwink the market. that 1 gram removed from the modern shells is litterally nothing. maybe it saves the manufacturer a pittance over a month of manufacturing. shells are getting more and more european. and is gravitating towards faster and faster shells. there hardly are bad shells thesedays, and the aforementioned loadings do work. but classic 1,1/8oz loads are not too commonplace here, especially in 9-8-7 shotsizes. there appears to be a premium price increase when #6s are used. Thank you, good to see you referring to the once common place 12 bore "square" load of 1,1/8th of an ounce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old'un Posted March 14, 2019 Report Share Posted March 14, 2019 51 minutes ago, cookoff013 said: TC, that isnt half bad. the manufacturers have some kind of choke hold over the uk. they actually release 26gram 21gram, 19gram, 27gram, 31gram loadings to hoodwink the market. that 1 gram removed from the modern shells is litterally nothing. maybe it saves the manufacturer a pittance over a month of manufacturing. shells are getting more and more european. and is gravitating towards faster and faster shells. there hardly are bad shells thesedays, and the aforementioned loadings do work. but classic 1,1/8oz loads are not too commonplace here, especially in 9-8-7 shotsizes. there appears to be a premium price increase when #6s are used. Can never get my head around this pricing, after all lead is lead, I don’t know if there are more processes in manufacturing larger shot or are they all basically the same process? The lead price at the moment is low, around £0.75 per pound so why is the price of cartridges not falling? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted March 14, 2019 Report Share Posted March 14, 2019 11 minutes ago, old'un said: Can never get my head around this pricing, after all lead is lead, I don’t know if there are more processes in manufacturing larger shot or are they all basically the same process? The lead price at the moment is low, around £0.75 per pound so why is the price of cartridges not falling? It is purely greed and massaging the customer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old'un Posted March 14, 2019 Report Share Posted March 14, 2019 Perhaps some of you loading guys can tell me the cost per cartridge for loading 1oz of 6s, plaswad or feltwad in 12g? obviously there is labour involved but I just would like to know the total component cost per cartridge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted March 14, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2019 13 minutes ago, old'un said: Can never get my head around this pricing after all lead is lead, I don’t know if there are more processes in manufacturing larger shot or are they all basically the same process? The lead price at the moment is low, around £0.75 per pound so why is the price of cartridges not falling? That's their plan. As Cookoff said, hoodwink is the word. My point is, would you go into a shoe shop and accept a pair of 8s or 10s when you wanted 9s? No. So why do we have to accept anything that is patently not as described? Now , common sense must prevail and if one shotmaker can produce their goods consistently within a reasonable some 3% of the specified figure - even in their "utility" range, why can't another do better than within 10% even in their "premium" range? Yep, some bright spark will explain that it's because there's no money in cartridges...... and if you believe that......... Currently, they get away with it for obvious reasons. Mind you, I'm sort of in favour of their laissez faire attitude as with a bit of effort and time you can now get exactly what you'd like without having to make everything yourself as as has been said there's hardly any bad cartridges nowadays - just badly described ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fen tiger Posted March 14, 2019 Report Share Posted March 14, 2019 20 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said: It is purely greed and massaging the customer! This is the reason you only have to look what the Americans pay for their powder to see how this whole Cartridge and reloading pricing here is Beyond reproach. They are just Ripping us off all the time, i am now at the stage i will not buy from british ammo manufacturers. Imported ammo is often better and cheaper or comparable so why support them? They will not sell me A steel (A381 ) over the counter any more i wont buy British. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted March 14, 2019 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2019 4 minutes ago, Fen tiger said: This is the reason you only have to look what the Americans pay for their powder to see how this whole Cartridge and reloading pricing here is Beyond reproach. They are just Ripping us off all the time, i am now at the stage i will not buy from british ammo manufacturers. Imported ammo is often better and cheaper or comparable so why support them? They will not sell me A steel (A381 ) over the counter any more i wont buy British. Have I mis-read or do we have a contradiction in terms? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fen tiger Posted March 14, 2019 Report Share Posted March 14, 2019 11 minutes ago, old'un said: Perhaps some of you loading guys can tell me the cost per cartridge for loading 1oz of 6s, plaswad or feltwad in 12g? obviously there is labour involved but I just would like to know the total component cost per cartridge. The trouble giving you an accurate price old un is the Massaging Tight choke touched on, ammo manufacturers here have lied hid behind apparently draconian health and safety rules and taxation for so long now no one really knows how much powder is any more, love to know what the likes of gamebore actually pay foe a pound of A steel i bet its not £40 to £46 we pay claygame. They have been clever they keep the powder component pricing so its no more viable to reload than buy Factory ammo here. Its been like this years we no longer know what the real prices are until you look at the USA. 6 minutes ago, wymberley said: Have I mis-read or do we have a contradiction in terms? Perfect from their angle . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted March 14, 2019 Report Share Posted March 14, 2019 the big manufacturers stick together and have a pricing system where by no-one will bottom out the market as it means less profit in the longrun. the jump in price is absolute amazing really. £50+ just for 1,1/16oz of 6s. after that it even more silly. for all intense porposes, shotguns are very simple, for them to work well, alot of shot going 1200fps works 99.99% of the time. imported ammo is exellent nowadays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted March 14, 2019 Report Share Posted March 14, 2019 17 minutes ago, cookoff013 said: the big manufacturers stick together and have a pricing system where by no-one will bottom out the market as it means less profit in the longrun. the jump in price is absolute amazing really. £50+ just for 1,1/16oz of 6s. after that it even more silly. for all intense porposes, shotguns are very simple, for them to work well, alot of shot going 1200fps works 99.99% of the time. imported ammo is exellent nowadays. The word you are looking for is CARTEL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fen tiger Posted March 14, 2019 Report Share Posted March 14, 2019 32 minutes ago, cookoff013 said: imported ammo is exellent nowadays. It is just look at RC for example and i tried some Rotweil steel back end of season Performed great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted March 14, 2019 Report Share Posted March 14, 2019 yeah, imports are good. infact those RC2s 24g #9s are brilliant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diss4111 Posted March 14, 2019 Report Share Posted March 14, 2019 6 hours ago, old'un said: Perhaps some of you loading guys can tell me the cost per cartridge for loading 1oz of 6s, plaswad or feltwad in 12g? obviously there is labour involved but I just would like to know the total component cost per cartridge. My 28g fibre wad cartridges cost 23p per shell if I had to buy shot. I make my own and get lead for virtually nothing from several contacts.Components for my loads without shot cost 13p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perazzishot Posted March 14, 2019 Report Share Posted March 14, 2019 1 hour ago, Diss4111 said: My 28g fibre wad cartridges cost 23p per shell if I had to buy shot. I make my own and get lead for virtually nothing from several contacts.Components for my loads without shot cost 13p I can buy 28g Fibres for less than 20p a cartridge so why would you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokersmith Posted March 14, 2019 Report Share Posted March 14, 2019 36 minutes ago, Perazzishot said: I can buy 28g Fibres for less than 20p a cartridge so why would you? Presumably as he pays 13p ... doh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B B Posted March 14, 2019 Report Share Posted March 14, 2019 2 minutes ago, Smokersmith said: Presumably as he pays 13p ... doh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perazzishot Posted March 14, 2019 Report Share Posted March 14, 2019 1 hour ago, Smokersmith said: Presumably as he pays 13p ... doh! Some real simpletons on here isn't there but Norfolk does have that reputation. He is relying on free lead and dripping his own shot to do it for that price. He quotes 23p per shell otherwise which I presume is standard hence the comment. As I run a business I work on my hourly worth too, so if my labour rate is £40 an hour why do I take time off work to paint a room when I can pay a decorator £30 an hour. So making cartridges I'm adding £40 an hour to any cost of materials, so what is the average homeload production per hour? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokersmith Posted March 14, 2019 Report Share Posted March 14, 2019 Brilliant. You ask the question why he does it... then answer the question of why you don’t. Simpletons abound!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted March 14, 2019 Report Share Posted March 14, 2019 14 minutes ago, Perazzishot said: Some real simpletons on here isn't there but Norfolk does have that reputation. He is relying on free lead and dripping his own shot to do it for that price. He quotes 23p per shell otherwise which I presume is standard hence the comment. As I run a business I work on my hourly worth too, so if my labour rate is £40 an hour why do I take time off work to paint a room when I can pay a decorator £30 an hour. So making cartridges I'm adding £40 an hour to any cost of materials, so what is the average homeload production per hour? You make a good point fiscally your figures make sense, and in any case you do not have the time to reload for shotgun when your not out earning your £40 an hour your away on your 40-50 High/Extreme/Grouse Driven Shoots per season, 1 or 2 Clay Competitions a week, Pigeon Shooting when ever you want it and plenty of duck and goose shooting. and fireing 5025 Cartridges in 4 days in Argentina to add to the 30-40000 you normally shoot per year. Its just not practical for you mate you would have a sore backside sat on a wooden stool in your back shed spitting that little lit out on the old Lee Loadall wouldn’t you now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perazzishot Posted March 14, 2019 Report Share Posted March 14, 2019 5 minutes ago, lancer425 said: You make a good point fiscally your figures make sense, and in any case you do not have the time to reload for shotgun when your not out earning your £40 an hour your away on your 40-50 High/Extreme/Grouse Driven Shoots per season, 1 or 2 Clay Competitions a week, Pigeon Shooting when ever you want it and plenty of duck and goose shooting. and fireing 5025 Cartridges in 4 days in Argentina to add to the 30-40000 you normally shoot per year. Its just not practical for you mate you would have a sore backside sat on a wooden stool in your back shed spitting that little lit out on the old Lee Loadall wouldn’t you now. PS it's my staff who go out at £40 per hour you pay a lot more for a consultant to go out! You forgot mate I have 4 children boys at 23, 14 and 2 girls - 5 & 7 (all ours) who have ballet, football, acrobatics, lego, swimming, tap, modern, street and Jazz and a wife who is a call centre manager working from 5 - 11(her choice) so I'm the taxi service, chef, storyteller every evening too. You are right finding time to load 30,000+ cartridges per year may be beyond me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer425 Posted March 14, 2019 Report Share Posted March 14, 2019 6 minutes ago, Perazzishot said: PS it's my staff who go out at £40 per hour you pay a lot more for a consultant to go out! You forgot mate I have 4 children boys at 23, 14 and 2 girls - 5 & 7 (all ours) who have ballet, football, acrobatics, lego, swimming, tap, modern, street and Jazz and a wife who is a call centre manager working from 5 - 11(her choice) so I'm the taxi service, chef, storyteller every evening too. You are right finding time to load 30,000+ cartridges per year may be beyond me! I knew i was you keep on buying em . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cookoff013 Posted March 14, 2019 Report Share Posted March 14, 2019 My reloads rotate around 240 to 180.per k. My other reloads 180/k. My weirdo stuff, silly money Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gotgcoalman Posted March 14, 2019 Report Share Posted March 14, 2019 Just costed my personal "home rolled" loads for pests. Primers/powder/wads/shot = £88 for............................ 250 🙄 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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