NZ to ban all semi automatic firearms

[Benthejockey]

Just heard on the radio that the kiwi PM is rushing a law through banning all semi automatic firearms to prevent an act of terrorism ever happening in NZ ever again. Because clearly the problem is the availability of firearms that can shoot quickly. This really winds me up. The problem isn't with the firearms its with the odd loony that wants to kill people. Target them instead, they could ban guns throughout the country and true terrorists would still use their AK47'S and nutters will use bombs, knives, fire, vehicles, poison the list is endless!

[TIGHTCHOKE]

Pretty standard knee-jerk reaction to such an atrocity!

[Lord v]

The report I read yesterday was that there would be a number of exemptions. Namely. 22s, shotguns and a farming/pest control one. 

Not that different to here really. 

[JohnfromUK]

16 minutes ago, Benthejockey said:

The problem isn't with the firearms its with the odd loony that wants to kill people.

Whilst that is quite right, politicians follow (largely uninformed) public opinion - just as they did here after the tragic events at Dunblane and Hungerford etc.  Unfortunately it was a predictable reaction, and I suspect will (at this sensitive time in New Zealand) probably be well received by a majority.

[stuartyboy]

I totally agree in the sentiment that it's not the weapon used, but the person that's responsible. However, I'm going to play Devils advocate and make a point that will be unpopular here.

Since they've banned semi auto centerfire  rifles since Hungerford, there's been no mass shootings with legally held semi auto CF rifles in the UK.

Since they banned handguns after Dunblane, they've been no mass shootings with legally held handguns in the UK.

So it does work. And it's highly popular with the overwhelming majority of the population. 

Yes, they are still shootings, stabbings, acid attacks but no shootings with legally held semi auto guns and handguns.

If the above guns wherent taken out of civilian hands, how many more attacks would've/couldve happened? Would it be like America,  with frequent attacks?

Yes,  I know criminals still have guns, so do terrorists but we're talking about legally held guns and mass shootings. 

Tin hat on.....

[henry d]

It appears that he got the guns legally, abused the system, therefore the system is flawed, good, I am ok with them going. Yes the vast majority "suffer" but no where near as much as the innocent have.

[redlew1]

the reason there has been no mass shootings with handguns legally held is as you rightly said they were banned from public ownership.

[JohnfromUK]

16 minutes ago, stuartyboy said:

So it does work.

Mass shootings have never been common in the UK, so it isn't really clear at all that the 'bans' have been effective.  It is of course good that there have been no more, but I don't believe the ban is necessarily the reason.

17 minutes ago, stuartyboy said:

And it's highly popular with the overwhelming majority of the population. 

That is certainly true .......... but shouldn't be the only reason to do things (though it often is).  Sometimes 'popular opinion' is very 'knee jerk' and uninformed.

[DUNKS]

Sorry folk but I entirely agree with the NZ PM. I see no reason why a civilian would want to own a military style auto or semi auto.

If you really need to own and shoot these weapons, Join the armed forces! . I am no tree hugger my immediate family. "Not aunts uncles and grand parents" have over a hundred years military service, firing any thing from naval guns chucking great lumps of steel many miles to jets with bombs and cannon. Also I have a fine collection of sporting guns. Military style weapons are designed for doing one thing and one thing only. They have no place in civilian life.

 

This is my opinion after 82 years of seeing life on this planet and I am entitled to it.

[JohnfromUK]

3 minutes ago, DUNKS said:

This is my opinion after 82 years of seeing life on this planet and I am entitled to it.

No problem with your opinion, and this one is for the NZ Government and people to decide. 

My 'concern' such as it is relates to quickly decided and hastily introduced 'bans' where politicians jump on the bandwagon of public opinion to pass laws that might be better done in a less sensitive time when they would get a proper consideration and scrutiny by Parliament.  That should produce a better and more soundly drafted law, allowing any exceptions that may be appropriate (such as for some calibres and possibly some professions) and leaving no loopholes to be exploited.

For the record, I agree that military (and military style) weapons have no place outside the military .......... but certain types of semi auto may have a place for pest control etc.  I do not know the NV shooting world, but the right (calibre and type) semi auto guns would seem to have a place in some types of pest and vermin control.

[ratchers]

From what I have read, they are banning these military style guns and having an amnesty and you'll get compensated when you hand your gun in.

But there is a problem nobody knows how many of these guns are about cos they were not licensed, only the holder was licensed.

So one man could have ten of these guns and maybe hand four in.

Have I understood this correctly?

[NoBodyImportant]

They should make shooting up mosque illegal.  That will solve it.  Thats how we got rid of drugs in America.  

[Benthejockey]

3 minutes ago, ratchers said:

From what I have read, they are banning these military style guns and having an amnesty and you'll get compensated when you hand your gun in.

But there is a problem nobody knows how many of these guns are about cos they were not licensed, only the holder was licensed.

So one man could have ten of these guns and maybe hand four in.

Have I understood this correctly?

I'm not abreast of NZ gun laws but if this is the case - you're licensed but the guns aren't- then that's the problem isnt it. If you don't know who's got what you cant know what's out there.

As for military style firearms the new chassis systems are becoming more and more popular in the same way as synthetic stocked rifles became more and more popular. I quite like the look of them myself. It doesn't mean I want to dress up and play call of duty or think I'm Rambo. 

At the end of the day if you want to go on a rampage you don't need a machine gun, a sawn off shotgun will all but cut a person in half at close range and can be reloaded very quickly, a single shot 308 scoped rifle can kill a lot of people from a long way away, a small knife in a large crowd can be used to stab a lot of people before anyone knew what was happening. It's not the article used it's the person with the mental deficit that is the problem. 

[Mice!]

27 minutes ago, DUNKS said:

Sorry folk but I entirely agree with the NZ PM. I see no reason why a civilian would want to own a military style auto or semi auto.

If you really need to own and shoot these weapons, Join the armed forces! . I am no tree hugger my immediate family. "Not aunts uncles and grand parents" have over a hundred years military service, firing any thing from naval guns chucking great lumps of steel many miles to jets with bombs and cannon. Also I have a fine collection of sporting guns. Military style weapons are designed for doing one thing and one thing only. They have no place in civilian life.

 

This is my opinion after 82 years of seeing life on this planet and I am entitled to it.

I can understand why some folk would want to own them, the thrill of shooting lots of bullets .

But i see no reason for Joe public to own semi automatic military rifles, it was an obvious reaction to the terrible shooting.

[NoBodyImportant]

1 hour ago, stuartyboy said:

I totally agree in the sentiment that it's not the weapon used, but the person that's responsible. However, I'm going to play Devils advocate and make a point that will be unpopular here.

Since they've banned semi auto centerfire  rifles since Hungerford, there's been no mass shootings with legally held semi auto CF rifles in the UK.

Since they banned handguns after Dunblane, they've been no mass shootings with legally held handguns in the UK.

So it does work. And it's highly popular with the overwhelming majority of the population. 

Yes, they are still shootings, stabbings, acid attacks but no shootings with legally held semi auto guns and handguns.

If the above guns wherent taken out of civilian hands, how many more attacks would've/couldve happened? Would it be like America,  with frequent attacks?

Yes,  I know criminals still have guns, so do terrorists but we're talking about legally held guns and mass shootings. 

Tin hat on.....

You know America really doesn’t have the problem that the media portrays.  I have never known anyone that was murdered.  We are a vast country with a huge population so it just seems like it.  The media hears about a shooting and they play it over and over.  Besides guns aren’t dangerous.  They are tools.  

[12gauge82]

I'm on the fence with this one, but I can see why semi auto centre fire rifles would be banned, there would have been nowhere near the number of people killed if he had not had access to semi auto weapons. 

[NoBodyImportant]

9 minutes ago, Mice! said:

I can understand why some folk would want to own them, the thrill of shooting lots of bullets .

But i see no reason for Joe public to own semi automatic military rifles, it was an obvious reaction to the terrible shooting.

I not a huge collector but I own a hundred or so.  But in America we look at it as a last defense against a overbearing government.  It goes deeper then home protection and hunting.  

[Mice!]

1 minute ago, NoBodyImportant said:

You know America really doesn’t have the problem that the media portrays.  I have never known anyone that was murdered.  We are a vast country with a huge population so it just seems like it.  The media hears about a shooting and they play it over and over.  Besides guns aren’t dangerous.  They are tools.  

You are being funny aren't you? I realise your from America but how many high school shootings does it take to be too many? Yes you have a massive population and the country is huge but the gun laws are nuts.

And all tools are dangerous in the wrong hands.

[NoBodyImportant]

2 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

I'm on the fence with this one, but I can see why semi auto centre fire rifles would be banned, there would have been nowhere near the number of people killed if he had not had access to semi auto weapons. 

He could have built a bomb.  He could have ran through a crown in his car.  

[Ultrastu]

Just now, Mice! said:

I can understand why some folk would want to own them, the thrill of shooting lots of bullets .

But i see no reason for Joe public to own semi automatic military rifles, it was an obvious reaction to the terrible shooting.

The Problem with that view is that your looking at it from a uk perspective .

Ive been to the wilds of newzealand and met farmers who dont see poeple for weeks there are only 3.5 million people in a country nearly twice the size of the uk .

Ferel sheep cause a massive amount of agricultural damage. 1 shot with a bolt action gun and the rest (hundreds ) are gone .your then gonna take another 12 hours on your quad bike trying to find them for a second shot .

In that time there has probably been 5 born so the population exlpodes .

A semi auto can potentially drop 5 or six goats before they get away. 

This might just slow the population growth down a bit .

A semi auto is the only tool for effective pest control in nz.

But then not everybody understands and knee jerk reactions are a very bad idea .

They are capitalising on a very unfortunate incident to push thier anti gun agenda .its wrong. 

[NoBodyImportant]

Just now, Mice! said:

You are being funny aren't you? I realise your from America but how many high school shootings does it take to be too many? Yes you have a massive population and the country is huge but the gun laws are nuts.

And all tools are dangerous in the wrong hands.

Not at all.  Not one person I know has been murdered.  Our gun laws are not what the media makes it out to be.  To buy a gun you have to pass a background check.  Even at gun shows. The loophole doesn’t exist.  Plus if you outlaw them the only the outlaws will own them.  Example- 750k bumpstocks have been manufactured.  Not counting the homemade ones.  3 have been turned in since the ban.  Our gun deaths are centralized in a few urban, ethnic areas.  

[Ultrastu]

Also .military style is bad (black with weaver rails etc ?) But a wood stocked version of the same semi auto is ok .

Oh yeah that makes sense 😒

 

[Deker]

1 hour ago, stuartyboy said:

I totally agree in the sentiment that it's not the weapon used, but the person that's responsible. However, I'm going to play Devils advocate and make a point that will be unpopular here.

Since they've banned semi auto centerfire  rifles since Hungerford, there's been no mass shootings with legally held semi auto CF rifles in the UK.

Since they banned handguns after Dunblane, they've been no mass shootings with legally held handguns in the UK.

So it does work. And it's highly popular with the overwhelming majority of the population. 

Yes, they are still shootings, stabbings, acid attacks but no shootings with legally held semi auto guns and handguns.

If the above guns wherent taken out of civilian hands, how many more attacks would've/couldve happened? Would it be like America,  with frequent attacks?

Yes,  I know criminals still have guns, so do terrorists but we're talking about legally held guns and mass shootings. 

Tin hat on.....

 

How many mass shootings with legal handguns & semi-auto rifles happened before these events? I honestly don't remember any but there could well have been, so if there wasn't any then there's no proof at all that the ban has done anything.

[Ultrastu]

This was obviously a racially motivated hate crime .

But hey lets TOTALLY IGNORE  that fact and concentrate on the tools of choice .

 

[Mice!]

5 minutes ago, Ultrastu said:

The Problem with that view is that your looking at it from a uk perspective .

Ive been to the wilds of newzealand and met farmers who dont see poeple for weeks there are only 3.5 million people in a country nearly twice the size of the uk .

Ferel sheep cause a massive amount of agricultural damage. 1 shot with a bolt action gun and the rest (hundreds ) are gone .your then gonna take another 12 hours on your quad bike trying to find them for a second shot .

In that time there has probably been 5 born so the population exlpodes .

A semi auto can potentially drop 5 or six goats before they get away. 

This might just slow the population growth down a bit .

A semi auto is the only tool for effective pest control in nz.

But then not everybody understands and knee jerk reactions are a very bad idea .

They are capitalising on a very unfortunate incident to push thier anti gun agenda .its wrong. 

From what I've read Stu this fella had just legally bought this gun, so maybe their checks aren't good enough to begin with? There might be something in place for the hill farmers to apply for what they need who knows, but they banned semi automatics in Australia after a shooting and there doing the same in New Zealand.

You average Joe has no need for an automatic rifle.