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5 minutes ago, bluesj said:

Is that the loophole where you go through a rigorous vetting proses by the police and have to prove good reason before you can have one? 

Exactly doubt weather the person reporting has any idea what the process is.

10 minutes ago, Dogs said:

Maybe here soon ? The plank on the bbc news this morning reckoned a home office source had advised him it was being looked at ? " In light of recent events "

Wouldn't surprise me the new Zealand prime minister seems to be seeking 5mins of fame. So some fools in the UK will want theirs too jump straight onto the legal gun holders. Forget iligal gun culture and knife crime been rife. 

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10 hours ago, Squinting shot said:

Any one els seen the times newspaper article about how you can order shotguns over the Internet in the UK that have 10 shot magazines apparently loopholes mean anyone can have 1. Trying to scare the general population of non shooters. No mention of knife crime or iligal guns. 

Blimey, next thing you'll be wanting responsible, truthful reporting by so called PROFESSIONAL JOURNALISTS!:rolleyes:

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23 hours ago, Squinting shot said:

Any one els seen the times newspaper article about how you can order shotguns over the Internet in the UK that have 10 shot magazines apparently loopholes mean anyone can have 1. Trying to scare the general population of non shooters. No mention of knife crime or iligal guns. 

IMG_20190323_190138.jpg

Can you send a link please? Can’t find anything about this online.

Id like to read the article before I respond to them. 

Edited by Scully
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5 hours ago, Scully said:

Can you send a link please? Can’t find anything about this online.

Id like to read the article before I respond to them.

 

5 hours ago, Scully said:

Can you send a link please? Can’t find anything about this online.

Id like to read the article before I respond to them. 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/military-style-firearms-for-sale-in-british-shops-qcs0v88n7

Edited by Squinting shot
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For those who don't want an account:

Quote

Weapons similar to those used by the Christchurch mass murderer are legally on sale in Britain, despite the government’s boast that gun laws are the toughest in the world.

Semi-automatic shotguns, some of which are designed to look like AK47 assault rifles, can be bought online and from gun dealers around the country, The Times has found.

These combat-style shotguns fire cartridges but can be fitted with magazines holding up to ten rounds that can be discharged rapidly without any need to reload. Gun control campaigners say the weapons have been specifically designed to exploit loopholes in the legislation.

Brenton Tarrant, the alleged killer of 50 people in two mosques in New Zealand, had five weapons — two of which were legally owned shotguns — when he was arrested. One firearms expert who has studied his rampage said both shotguns were available in Britain.

The Times found multiple examples of assault-type weapons on sale:

  • The Armsan RS-S1 shotgun is described on one retailer’s site as an “AK-47 lookalike”; it is made in Turkey under licence from the Russian firearms company Saiga, part of the Kalashnikov group.
  • The Typhoon F12 is described by retailers as a “shotgun wrapped in an AR platform”. AR is thought to be a reference to the AR-15 Armalite assault rifle.
  • On a firearms enthusiasts’ website, a reviewer described a “fully UK legal” copy of a Czech Scorpion submachine pistol that fired .22 ammunition.

New Zealand moved this week to ban MSSA (military-style semi-automatic) shotguns capable of holding more than five rounds by classifying them as military-style weapons.

Under UK law they remain legal, but the Home Office was facing calls last night to impose a ban. Officials said they were following the New Zealand investigation closely to see if Britain needed to act. Firearm laws were reformed in 1997 in the wake of the Hungerford and Dunblane massacres but gun control campaigners say the new weapons exploit loopholes.

There are 20,000 legally held high-capacity shotguns in England and Wales. The vast majority are used in the countryside for vermin control, but military-style weapons are becoming increasingly popular for “practical shooting”, a sport in which participants move through a course firing at targets.

The discipline is governed by the UK Practical Shooting Association (UKPSA), a charity with the stated object of providing firearms instruction “amongst Her Majesty’s subjects so that they will be better fitted to serve their country in the armed forces”.

Such weapons are available only to holders of firearms certificates who have undergone detailed background checks and have a “good reason” for owning one. Government guidance regards “target shooting” — including practical shooting — as a legitimate reason for acquiring the weapons.

Critics point out that Tarrant, 28, the alleged Christchurch killer, was a member of a shooting club and had a firearms licence. **********, a writer on shooting, said: “There is no real place in sports shooting for assault-style weapons nor is pretending to be in the SAS justifiable as sport.”

Gill Marshall-Andrews, of the Gun Control Network, called for a ban on multishot weapons, adding: “There is no legitimate purpose for them.”

The UKPSA said it was “absolutely horrified by the criminal actions of an abhorrent extremist in New Zealand”. It said British practical shooters competed around the world and added: “The equipment we use for our sport is highly modified and only suited to high level athletic use. Whilst they may bear some resemblance to their military counterparts they are . . . only useful for sporting purposes.”

A Home Office spokesman said firearms laws were kept under constant review: “We will thoroughly review the findings of the investigation into last week’s tragic attack in Christchurch to see if further action should be taken to keep our communities safe.”

My thoughts:

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Semi-automatic shotguns, some of which are designed to look like AK47 assault rifles

Based on the AK pattern, not designed to look pretty. They're not manufactured to look a specific way, they look a specific way because of the design.

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can be bought online and from gun dealers around the country

Either way, you need to exchange the weapon in person and complete the paperwork. Trying to imply here you can get Amazon to send it same day is disingenuous.

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Gun control campaigners say the weapons have been specifically designed to exploit loopholes in the legislation

Which ones, please? And I didn't think we had any loopholes with detachable box mags? Not a section 1 expert, but i always assumed you could get detachable mag shotguns if you had a reason (i.e. practical). What about a jenky cheap shotgun (like an old Hatsan) with an extended tube mag? Doesn't look AK or AR cool but has high capacity and is far cheaper, but doesn't seem to feature here.

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AR is thought to be a reference to the AR-15 Armalite assault rifle.

Well it is. The thing here is if you don't know much you don't know about AR being a pattern you can base stuff on. Wouldn't sound half as scary if it was based off the Ruger Mini-14 tho?

Quote

On a firearms enthusiasts’ website, a reviewer described a “fully UK legal” copy of a Czech Scorpion submachine pistol that fired .22 ammunition.

Which presumably is legal under section 1 and not that controversial as I think it would still pass under NZ law due to it being a .22?

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facing calls last night to impose a ban

On what, by who?

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new weapons exploit loopholes.

These are new? Mil style box mag guns have been around a while? And what bloody loopholes?!

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There is no real place in sports shooting for assault-style weapons

This argument starts to draw out the real thought behind all this - do shootings happen because people get a tacticool hard on for their guns, or could somebody slap an extended tube on a jenky 1970's gun and still cause serious damage? Will just ensuring that all guns have wood furniture be enough? I have agreement with control and moderation of firearms but you cannot keep coming back to the "its black and is assault style" without looking like you just don't know what you're talking about.

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Gill Marshall-Andrews, of the Gun Control Network, called for a ban on multishot weapons, adding: “There is no legitimate purpose for them.”

That'd cause a hell of a drag on clay shooters, none of whom seem to be otherwise implicated in this "ban black guns" diatribe, and pest controllers. The government seems happy that target shooting is a legitimate purpose.

 

I'm all for a debate, but this keeps coming back to the same fight the US has. AR-15 is scary and Ruger Mini 14 isn't because one is black plastic and the other is wood. In our recent history it wasn't an AK-15 with a 32 round fifty calibre clipazine that was used, but an illegally acquired .22. If you want to ban the black scary guns then fine (or even paint them pink with flowers) but lets have THAT debate and not pretend it isn't people who don't understand a single iota of the nomenclature and subject having a yell.

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