reloading .410

[gotgcoalman]

So after the rfd debarcle.

The little .410 should be here tomorrow (hopefully)

Due to sending my cert off to the seller I haven't got any .410 crackers for testing as yet.

What I intend to do is "home load" to feed it.Went bin diving for "used once cases" yesterday at a clay shoot.

I do realise reloading is going to be a pain in the backside.I'll physically have to weigh each powder charge and shot load.

De prime and prime will have to be the punch and dowel method.

Apparantly Lee don't make the bits for the loadall to suit .410

On a plus the wad cutter I use for a BP gun is perfect for making errrrrrm wads to suit.

After reading the alliant load data sheets the red dot I use for 12 loads is no good and I need to re think powder.

The local rfd the gun is going to said he stocked various vectan powders.

Might just be me but .410 wasnt listed on the pdf I've been looking at although all the smaller gauges seem to point to AO and a 209 primer.

Ideally I want to perfect a hardhitting sub with a decent "payload"

Once it's established the gun works as intended then I'll hushpower it and work from there.

cheers for getting this far down the post 👍

 

 

[lancer425]

Sizing not essential but can be a problem, make sure your rubish bin cases will actually chamber and that the gun will shut, if not sized some guns can have a little more headspace and once fired or not the rims are too thick to fit some guns chamber properly.

Prime de prime, sounds like you have that covered. Wadding cut your own buy them its up to you.

Powder for 410 vectan yes but you want SP3 its the best but you can use H110 Aliant 2400 and Vit 110 its all ok but sp3 seems ideal for 410.

Shot self explanatory

Now Closure. Apart from sizing issues this one will give you most headache you can buy a press mec or PW whatever but you wont find one at every car boot they are not there, and when they are they know what to charge. If your loading on the cheap which it sounds like you are. i would buy a RTO head for pillar drill or hand drill. You can often fold in the crimp and close it with diy tools there are a few videos on the net with people doing this but if you buy a RTO you can get reliable crimps which will give reliable pressures and consistent performance.

My advice is try and buy the omv head in fact for a reloading press to aim for i would go with a OMV in thhe smart kit .410 it will do other bores just needs the tooling that’s all . the omv is about £200 . but for a start £30 to £50  on a RTO say a bpi or a GAEP is what i would do.

[Walker570]

Plus one for using SP3 it meters well but is very fine and needs care handling, it leaked everywhere when I tried dropping it in the Mec 600 but now I weigh each load.   I shoot 410 almost exclusively these days and load my own. I now use SP3 only.  I personally would not cut my own wads considering how reasonaby priced they are. I use the wads supplied by Folkestone Engineering and my load is allied to their suggestion for 19g of lead shot.  I actually use 18.7 of #7s which allows a very tidy crimp.  I individually weight both powder and shot and only use my MEC 600 for de priming/resizing, priming, wad insertion and crimping. I pour the powder and shot straight from the scales.

It is worth pulling up the load details suggested by Folkestone Engineering for 410s. 

[gotgcoalman]

Between posting and "popping back"

checked a few more data sheets. Yep as you say SP3 is the listed go to for .410 👍

RTO's are a Russian monopoly unless you want to pay triple the delivered price for 1 in this country.🙁

Idea is......

get the gun (it should be with the courior now)

try a box or 2 or 3 of different factory loads first.

Pattern test and the scientific shoot 2 litre plastic milk cartons full of water for penetration testing (poor mans ballistic gel)

Then "hand load"to begin with.Ie weigh measure (do everything) manually.

It's going to be time consuming I realise.

In the meantime I'll start looking for a dedicated .410 press.

going for a mooch on the Folkstone site now😎

 

Didn't realise Folkstone had the wads at such a cheap rate.Not really cost effictive to make my own.

sp3 and 615 primers (I have a load of 209's for the 12)

Basic load data is there which is cool.

cheers guys.

 

Edited March 25, 2019 by gotgcoalman
add a bit

[lancer425]

You can make a rto yourself without a lathe but you will need a drill pres and a few basic tools .

Lots of videos on .410 reloading on youtube two here i have not watched but claim $1 will do it.on both of these videos.  There are many more  and you might just find an idea that will work for you.

 

[Uilleachan]

I roll my own, not too difficult but time consuming. A reliable cutting tool for the cases is well worth having, as a RTO finished cartridge has a habit of splitting a little at the top edge of the crimp, but 76mm finished carts tidy up to become 73mm, then 70mm and possibly a few will survive to become 65mm carts.  

+2 for SP3. Had good results with H110 too. Using both C&G and FE components and data, to good effect. They do say the .410 isn't a good starter gun for the kids, but the kids were doing just fine smashing straightaway clays as well as the adults last outing up the croft. Hopefully I can press them into hand pressing wads and weighing shot, to ease the strain of the next batch.  

[gotgcoalman]

Sp3 is a non starter with local suppliers.

Non have it and I'll have to wait until they next order to avoid paying the carrige charge on a lb of powder.

Local guy thinks he has some H110 though.

Going to have to check on load data for many powders and work with whats readilly available.

 

209 and 615 primers aren't a problem.

It's the propellant that's causing the dilema for homeloading once again.

 

 

[Walker570]

Had the same problem but managed to pick up sufficient for the next two seasons of SP3. I have used H110 succesfully with C&G loads for non toxic but have not tried it with lead.

John from Folkestone does travel north occasionally but don't know how far and I have liased with him on the A1 and picked up stuff. Very nice guy and very helpful.

Harasse Vectan a bit and see if they have suppliers local to you.   It' a crazy situation when you cannot buy what you want.

Edited March 26, 2019 by Walker570

[gotgcoalman]

I noticed he's up here in a month or 2 and meeting customers @ Scotch Corner

About 15 mins from me down the A1M roadworks permitting.

If I don't get sorted in the mean time I'll place an order with him.

[lancer425]

16 minutes ago, gotgcoalman said:

I noticed he's up here in a month or 2 and meeting customers @ Scotch Corner

About 15 mins from me down the A1M roadworks permitting.

If I don't get sorted in the mean time I'll place an order with him.

SP3 is good but if its not easy to get localy no reason why you can not use H110  or Winchester 296 if you can get any its the same powder.  BPI have plenty of .410 loads on the archived loads section. 

Aliant powders are usually easy to get what about lilgun, its great in .410  and works well in 20ga  if you have one.

Edited March 26, 2019 by lancer425

[gotgcoalman]

Just phoned my last source of powder. (only open thurs,Fri,Sat) and.............

Barbican Armoury stocks lil gun and perhaps some of the others.👍

More load data reading 😲

Tested the gun with shop bought crackers today on paper and waterfilled containers.

Nice tight pattern and hard hitting at sensible ranges.

Then started thining the rabbit population.

All seem to be in various stages of myxi so getting reasonably close wasn't a problem.

[propercartridges]

On 26/03/2019 at 20:23, gotgcoalman said:

Sp3 is a non starter with local suppliers.

Non have it and I'll have to wait until they next order to avoid paying the carrige charge on a lb of powder.

Local guy thinks he has some H110 though.

Going to have to check on load data for many powders and work with whats readilly available.

 

209 and 615 primers aren't a problem.

It's the propellant that's causing the dilema for homeloading once again.

 

 

you live in durham i live in durham u want sp3   best ring me   george 07714 323 909

[gotgcoalman]

So thanks to george the Sp3 is on the horizon.😎

 

Wads ordered off Folkstone. Eta is unknown as they have a large order to get out which will hinder my piddly order.

No great hurry as it'll give me time to "create or bin dive" empty cases.

due to having no dedicated .410 reloader/press initally it'll be done the painstaiking ,weigh/hand load using things I either have or have modified for the purpose.

Somethings I have some I have my eye on to be used.

The question I really would like an answer to is,

Lee powder dippers.

Are they any good?

Although I'd only use 1 or possibly 2 out of the set it might be money wasted.

 

[Walker570]

Give me a pm...address and I'll pop one in the post for you.   I just tamp a piece of toilet paper in to get to near the measure I want, then fully check on the scales. So if I send you a big one then you can adjust as needed.  For 410s it is necessary to be really careful getting the weight smack on. 

Edited April 3, 2019 by Walker570

[gotgcoalman]

cheers.

[lancer425]

DIY .410 roll turn

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?199177-Roll-Crimp-for-410-homemade

[figgy]

The OMV mini press for a pillar drill is a very good bit of kit. 

The reloading of .410 carts using the soldering iron to make the closure look good for getting more in a case. Worth a watch on you tube. 

Link http://www.omv.it/chiusura-pg/

Edited April 4, 2019 by figgy

[turbo33]

Take a look at my post on page two of the video section, hand loading 410.

Loading 410 can be a pain! Several reasons. Firstly, the shells themselves swell/distort on firing, hugely if they have previously been a fibre wad shell, not so much with a plastic wad. As a consequence, more often than not, won't chamber once reloaded. The second issue i had when trying to reload with a Mec press, was the shot drop tube is so small for the 410, that the shot gets hung up. Messing about trying to tap and get it to drop, usually results in shot everywhere!!

I have found the best method, is to use new cases. Ok, not as cheap as using old cases, but then thats no good if they won't chamber.

I use SP3, a Lee 1cc dipper will deliver an incredibly accurate charge of 0.97grams, or 14.96 grains. As long as the scoop is level, you can't get enough SP3 in it to go overcharge. Its called a dipper for a reason, so check out on the tube how to use it. Practise on some scales and you will quickly see how accurate your technique is. 2mm over powder card, 12mm evo wad ( FES). A 2.8cc dipper will be close on 18grms no 6/7. Again, a few practise runs and you will be within a couple of pieces of shot, and certainly equal to a lot of the factory shells I've dismantled. Over shot card (FES) and then a Gaep roll over tool on the bench drill. (Again, I bought from John at FES).

If you look on Johns web page, 410 evo wads, the load data and components are there at the bottom of the page.. All very easy and fun to do. I can do 60 an hour without rushing.

Hope this helps.

Atb

T33

Edited April 4, 2019 by turbo33

[Walker570]

2 hours ago, turbo33 said:

Take a look at my post on page two of the video section, hand loading 410.

Loading 410 can be a pain! Several reasons. Firstly, the shells themselves swell/distort on firing, hugely if they have previously been a fibre wad shell, not so much with a plastic wad. As a consequence, more often than not, won't chamber once reloaded. The second issue i had when trying to reload with a Mec press, was the shot drop tube is so small for the 410, that the shot gets hung up. Messing about trying to tap and get it to drop, usually results in shot everywhere!!

I have found the best method, is to use new cases. Ok, not as cheap as using old cases, but then thats no good if they won't chamber.

I use SP3, a Lee 1cc dipper will deliver an incredibly accurate charge of 0.97grams, or 14.96 grains. As long as the scoop is level, you can't get enough SP3 in it to go overcharge. Its called a dipper for a reason, so check out on the tube how to use it. Practise on some scales and you will quickly see how accurate your technique is. 2mm over powder card, 12mm evo wad ( FES). A 2.8cc dipper will be close on 18grms no 6/7. Again, a few practise runs and you will be within a couple of pieces of shot, and certainly equal to a lot of the factory shells I've dismantled. Over shot card (FES) and then a Gaep roll over tool on the bench drill. (Again, I bought from John at FES).

If you look on Johns web page, 410 evo wads, the load data and components are there at the bottom of the page.. All very easy and fun to do. I can do 60 an hour without rushing.

Hope this helps.

Atb

T33

Almost agree, but I do use once fired cases and having given a thorough examination twice fired.  Occasionally I come acros a case which is tight, but again occasionally that is down to me not concentarting and do a full resize stroke.  Easy to sort as I sit for a few minutes with my barrels and drop each cartridge in a chambe before boxing them.  I calculate about 5% get rejected as you will always get a few which split the crimp or something and need recycling.  To pour the dipper onto the scale pan to check takes just seconds, so that is the way I go. I pour my shot to a particular point in the case where I know I will get a clean tidy crimp this equates to 18.7grms, otherwise Turbo and I are almost identical but no 410s are identical when it comes to reloading or even shooting factory shells and that is why I went through a fair few test shots at paper to find the best pattern/choke combination.  Great fun.

[pinfireman]

I use a Ponsness Warren 375, no problems either with shot hang up, or swollen cases  I regularly check shot and powder drops,  very little variation there.  I did have a Mec Sizematic, that also worked well. At the moment, I,m setting up a Ponsness Warren 900 progressive in .410.  If I had to keep loading shot or powder by hand, I think I,d pass. Too time consuming.

[gotgcoalman]

Well the hand loading stuff arrived.

Dipper courtesy of Walker.It actually dips 19 g of #5 which is a bonus.

Made a .8 gram insert for it.

Priming/de priming and re size done manually with the die.

RTO tool is in the drill press ATM.

I predict much swearing.

[Stonepark]

On 04/04/2019 at 19:43, Walker570 said:

To pour the dipper onto the scale pan to check takes just seconds, so that is the way I go.

Instead of dipper for powder, I use a Lee Perfect Powder Measure, once it is set, throws an accurate charge reliably.

[Walker570]

1 hour ago, gotgcoalman said:

Well the hand loading stuff arrived.

Dipper courtesy of Walker.It actually dips 19 g of #5 which is a bonus.

Made a .8 gram insert for it.

Priming/de priming and re size done manually with the die.

RTO tool is in the drill press ATM.

I predict much swearing.

Pleased it arrived safely. Look forward to the results and how you get on. Don't be in a hurry ..eay does it.   The Lee powder measures mentioned by Stonepark are excellent also.  You might find that just under 19g for the shot gives you a tidy crimp, I use 18.7 and the birds do not seem to notice.

Edited April 17, 2019 by Walker570

[gotgcoalman]

Yep dip it and then weight on the scales before decanting into the case.

Seems to be coming out consistantly.

I'll have a look for the Lee measures though.

Cheers for the dipper. It erm dips within 1 or 2 pieces of shot either side of 19 grams.

slip the heath robinson insert in and it dips 0.8g or 12.3grains of powder.

Tried the RTO on a few "blank" cases to practice and they came out brilliant.

Tried on a "live" case and it looked like my dog had chewed it.

The eley 3" cases seem reluctant to re size although the eley 2 1/2" will first pass.

Lucky George gave me a pocket full of never fired primed cases.

cheers for the help so far on what appears to be a long road.

[humperdingle]

Are there any good online suppliers of powder, shot, primers etc? Can’t seem to find any local stockists 😞