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Jaggsy
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But...but...but...they probably come from single parent families or someone called them names once and should be mollycoddled, not punished. Poor mites. 

Or have the skin flayed off their backs before their long prison sentences. 

 

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13 minutes ago, walshie said:

But...but...but...they probably come from single parent families or someone called them names once and should be mollycoddled, not punished. Poor mites. 

Or have the skin flayed off their backs before their long prison sentences. 

 

Make your mind up man!:rolleyes:

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1 hour ago, clakk said:

In Merica guilt by association would send him down but here with rat lawyer,s like those he walks cos the law aint fit for purpose .

Its not that simple though is it, the others who were there also got long terms, the one who was such a gobby *** in front of the cameraman gave evidence against his mates and asked for protection yet still got 11 years (iirc), the rest got between that and 18. The guy in the initial encounter got off due to lack of evidence as he only said to the others that he had a blade shown to him.

Not much said about the young lad who lost his life and his perceived need to carry after getting a doing a year earlier and the whole process of why that is now a common occurence, its much easier to get all wound up over a gobby young lad than try and think.

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2 minutes ago, henry d said:

Its not that simple though is it, the others who were there also got long terms, the one who was such a gobby *** in front of the cameraman gave evidence against his mates and asked for protection yet still got 11 years (iirc), the rest got between that and 18. The guy in the initial encounter got off due to lack of evidence as he only said to the others that he had a blade shown to him.

Not much said about the young lad who lost his life and his perceived need to carry after getting a doing a year earlier and the whole process of why that is now a common occurence, its much easier to get all wound up over a gobby young lad than try and think.

Do you think 18 years is reasonable? they'll be out before they're 40, the lad who was killed, his family and friends will never be free from the pain caused even if he was not much better walking around with that knife in the first place. More importantly, when those guys are released what's to say they won't kill someone else and this time it'll be someone innocent, the stats would say they are likely to offend further, even if that doesn't mean an actual murder, though I certainly wouldn't rule it out, in my opinion, you take someone's life you should do life, or be executed, as crule as some would find that, it means no more risk to the public. 

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26 minutes ago, 12gauge82 said:

Do you think 18 years is reasonable? they'll be out before they're 40, the lad who was killed, his family and friends will never be free from the pain caused even if he was not much better walking around with that knife in the first place. More importantly, when those guys are released what's to say they won't kill someone else and this time it'll be someone innocent, the stats would say they are likely to offend further, even if that doesn't mean an actual murder, though I certainly wouldn't rule it out, in my opinion, you take someone's life you should do life, or be executed, as crule as some would find that, it means no more risk to the public. 

Whats to say they get proper help inside and don`t reoffend, however you chose not to rely on the stats fro Glasgow as it fits your beliefs, however it is being looked at as a strting point in London and elsewhere, so someone is actually doing something rather than bumping their gums and getting an ulcer over it, like the OP etc

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8 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

For people promoting capital punishment, I wonder what they deem an acceptable level of miscarriages of justice related to a death penalty is.

We incarcerate many found guilty of murder on the strength of DNA and associated evidence, and if that evidence is overwhelming then what else is needed? 

At the moment what we have is the above, yet it’s not uncommon for them to be released just to kill again. Is that not a miscarriage of justice? 

If life meant life then I’d be happy to forego capital punishment.  

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Just now, Scully said:

We incarcerate many found guilty of murder on the strength of DNA and associated evidence, and if that evidence is overwhelming then what else is needed? 

At the moment what we have is the above, yet it’s not uncommon for them to be released just to kill again. Is that not a miscarriage of justice? 

If life meant life then I’d be happy to forego capital punishment.  

You've answered my question with further questions.

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46 minutes ago, henry d said:

Whats to say they get proper help inside and don`t reoffend, however you chose not to rely on the stats fro Glasgow as it fits your beliefs, however it is being looked at as a strting point in London and elsewhere, so someone is actually doing something rather than bumping their gums and getting an ulcer over it, like the OP etc

I appreciate what your saying but we don't live in a perfect world where everyone can be fixed, although I'd like to see that happen, I don't think we should play Russian roulette with future innocent victims by releasing potentially very dangerous people back on the streets, to put it another way, let's protect decent people before proven offenders. 

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27 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

You've answered my question with further questions.

Ok. I don’t deem any level of miscarriage of justice as acceptable. Saying that, with the technology available today, the chances of a miscarriage of justice should be minimal. 

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Just now, Scully said:

Ok. I don’t deem any level of miscarriage of justice as acceptable. Saying that, with the technology available today, the chances of a miscarriage of justice should be minimal. 

Do you want to rephrase any of that, if not I put it to you that you are in fact not in favour of the death penalty? (I wish the Brexit discussions were this straightforward).

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2 hours ago, Scully said:

We incarcerate many found guilty of murder on the strength of DNA and associated evidence, and if that evidence is overwhelming then what else is needed? 

At the moment what we have is the above, yet it’s not uncommon for them to be released just to kill again. Is that not a miscarriage of justice? 

If life meant life then I’d be happy to forego capital punishment.  

Good choice of words. You say we need overwhelming evidence to lock someone up but also assert that it is not uncommon for someone to kill again and that is a miscarriage of justice and you use that to reinforce the life means life or capital punishment route. If someone is capable of being rehabilitated then you have removed their possibility of being a positive member of society at some stage because they might reoffend.

Life for a life is also interesting, would people who advocate the same rule for those who kill someone using their car when under the influence, bad driving, speeding etc? Same as the young people who carry a knife, they don`t intend (generalisation) to go and kill someone, they take it to deter someone, its similar to getting into my car after a skinful (I don`t) and I unintentionally kill someone.

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