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eddoakley

Crashed a borrowed car

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Posted (edited)

A friend borrowed a van from me.

I had comprehensive insurance. He had comprehensive insurance and said that he was covered to drive.

He crashed. Nobody hurt. He accepted fault. Then it gets complicated.

Transpires that his insurance didn't cover commercial vehicle.

My insurance company have paid out for the damage and have now sent me the bill! 

I've asked a few people and am told that there's no way for me to get out of it!?!?

Does anyone have any ideas? Anyone have any experience of anything even remotely similar? Or even better any legal bods able to help?

 

Edd

Edited by eddoakley

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11 minutes ago, ditchman said:

give the bill to "your mate"

Winner winner chicken dinner. 

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5 hours ago, ditchman said:

give the bill to "your mate"

 

5 hours ago, hod said:

Winner winner chicken dinner. 

Or send the boys round!:whistling:

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Commercial is different from private hence I've got any driver fully comp protected bonus on vans....but I've no 3rd party extension like your mate has just found out....so either he pays or you suck the bitter pill......

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I think that's pretty much it, technically he was driving without insurance and you aided him in this also. Both offences. Highlights why you need to check before you hand the keys over but then hindsight is a wonderful thing. 

I'm sure you can come to an agreement. 

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You shouldn't have to give the bill to your mate. He should have asked for it or got your van repaired soon as his insurance said no.

You break it you own it, as the saying goes.

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4 hours ago, figgy said:

You shouldn't have to give the bill to your mate. He should have asked for it or got your van repaired soon as his insurance said no.

You break it you own it, as the saying goes.

He repaired my van, £100 in parts from eBay. The merc that he hit has now cost in excess of £10k to repair.

He simply doesn't have the money and there's no way he will be able to pay. Even if I took him to court I would likely get £1 a  week and lose a friend. If the insurance company took him to court then all good.

To my mind he is at fault and as he was driving without insurance (as we later found to be the case) then the insurance companies would have taken it up with him. I'm struggling to understand how I'm liable when he completely accepts responsibility.

 

On a side note the story is a little more complicated. The driver of the other vehicle has stopped on double yellows on a bend and ran out in front of my mate as there was a broken down car on the opposite side of the road (with a central reservation  between them).

My mate swered to avoid him but the police weren't interested as nobody was hurt.

Nobody had been able to tell me yet of a way to get the insurance company to chase him and not me.

Not happy.

 

Edd

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I know someone borrowing a caddy on his car insurance. Tried telling him he’s not covered.

id like my mrs to drive my van but again I know she has a car policy and it even goes as far on your rac/aa cover. 

 

I feel sorry for for you I really do .

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Insurance is a minefield

lost our Shogun in Echo Arena fire NYE 2017

as I was the last person to drive it ( into car park and park it) the claim goes against ME. So even though it was a 'not at fault claim' and it was settled in full it still had to be declared to MY insurers for MY work vehicle and my premium went up by £80! It's the wife's car, I am a named driver. If it had been driven by somebody as a 3rd Party it wouldn't have been covered EVEN though it was not their fault

 

what do they think  I am going to do?, drive around looking for car parks that might be designed by the same cretin and park there waiting for the ensuing fire?

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Speak to the insurance ombudsman as I too cannot see how an uninsured driver of your van means your liable for the repair of the other vehicle. Just don't seem right.

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2 hours ago, figgy said:

Speak to the insurance ombudsman as I too cannot see how an uninsured driver of your van means your liable for the repair of the other vehicle. Just don't seem right.

I'm planning to do that Monday morning.

My current broker has had a look at the letter and seems to think I'm stuck, same as my solicitor but he did stress that it wasn't really his area and to investigate further before paying up.

I just don't get how it's my fault even thought the driver has admitted blame.

Edd

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Posted (edited)

Is it something to do with it being a company vehicle. 

As the ‘fleet manager’ you allowed the vehicle to be driven by an uninsured driver and as such the company is now liable for the bill by the virtue its your vehicle driven with the company’s knowledge. 

Just a random thought as if I recall you own your own company (apologies if I am on completely the wrong page) 

 

on a side note i had a vehicle damaged by part of a building falling down In a gale. Yep it still counted as a claim as the buildings insurers would only deal with my insurance company and not me direct as a 3rd party. I still have the letter that states even after a complaint, any incident increases our risk in relation to you as an individual..... even though I wasn’t involved in or even near by a building falling apart in a gale!!

shysters the whole lot of them, you have my sympathies 

Edited by ph5172

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8 hours ago, ph5172 said:

Is it something to do with it being a company vehicle. 

As the ‘fleet manager’ you allowed the vehicle to be driven by an uninsured driver and as such the company is now liable for the bill by the virtue its your vehicle driven with the company’s knowledge. 

Just a random thought as if I recall you own your own company (apologies if I am on completely the wrong page)

Not in this instance.

The van was owned by me personally and insured as such so the claim if off MY insurance.

I will be speaking to the ombudsman in the morning basically as a last resort before possibly having to pay up. I'm (obviously) really hoping that they have something helpful to tell me.

I will update.

 

Edd

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I don’t know if you van is un insured by the driver whether they can claim from you.  Depends if you want your mate to get the 6 points for driving uninsured and you to get the penalty for permitting. It’s a minefield, what I can say is all our company vans are any driver and on going if you want to lend vehicles that’s the best way of avoiding this.

 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, eddoakley said:

Not in this instance.

The van was owned by me personally and insured as such so the claim if off MY insurance.

Thanks for the clarification. 

I feel for you - not a brilliant situation for anyone. 

Your best port of call maybe a brief, not with the view to persue your friend but just to make sure you are watertight prior to any correspondence with the insurance company. 

Lending a vehicle to someone who is not insured is also (randomly) an offence although I am sure you could satisfy most criteria for dilligance and could argue robustly that from what you saw your friend was adequately covered - not being an expert in insurance small print. 

I assume that as the driver was identified under section 151 they have paid out and are now loling to recover, it maybe on the letter they sent you. - no expert at all so you probably need some professional advice  

Its certainly a predicament and £10k is a lot of cash. 

Not a nice position for all involved. 

Edited by ph5172

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33 minutes ago, ph5172 said:

 

Lending a vehicle to someone who is not insured is also (randomly) an offence although I am sure you could satisfy most criteria for dilligance and could argue robustly that from what you saw your friend was adequately covered - 

I'm aware of the offence of allowing somebody to drive without insurance but we both (mate an myself) believed he was covered. My insurance was in place. His was. I did not check policy documents but specifically asked if he was covered and he said he was. He drove his own vehicle to collect to van and I have known him drive vans on a regular basis so I had no reason at all to doubt him. He's gutted but he genuinely thought he was covered and had actually paid an increased premium to allow him to drive other vehicles. There's now way he could pay, he simply wouldn't have that kind of money.

If the insurers peruse him he would happily make arrangements to pay in installment or reach an agreement with them. 

As for points on license etc then so be it, he's not trying to get out of accepting responsibility. However I would imagine that the situation would fall into "special reasons" (yes that's what it's called) as he had insurance and everyone believed it was suitable, it's the technicality of being a commercial vehicle that's stung him (me!!)

 

Edd

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Posted (edited)
48 minutes ago, eddoakley said:

I'm aware of the offence of allowing somebody to drive without insurance but we both (mate an myself) believed he was covered. My insurance was in place. His was. I did not check policy documents but specifically asked if he was covered and he said he was. He drove his own vehicle to collect to van and I have known him drive vans on a regular basis so I had no reason at all to doubt him. He's gutted but he genuinely thought he was covered and had actually paid an increased premium to allow him to drive other vehicles. There's now way he could pay, he simply wouldn't have that kind of money.

If the insurers peruse him he would happily make arrangements to pay in installment or reach an agreement with them. 

As for points on license etc then so be it, he's not trying to get out of accepting responsibility. However I would imagine that the situation would fall into "special reasons" (yes that's what it's called) as he had insurance and everyone believed it was suitable, it's the technicality of being a commercial vehicle that's stung him (me!!)

 

Edd

Yep I agree   

I also pay an increased premium to allow me to drive other vehicles and I have never once thought to see if it would cover me to drive ‘commercial’ on a side note that would bring into play borrowing a mates l200 possibly. 

 

Like you say a genuine case of bad luck. 

Edited by ph5172

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I would suggest that the Merc was hit by an uninsured driver and they are trying it on with you, your not liable as you didn't crash it. I wouldn't accept the liability and wouldn't pay a penny, as soon as you do its your debt. If your insurance company isint paying out to them then that says a lot, their not liable either. Just your mate. A civil claim against him by the Mercs insurers will be the only way they can claim I think. 

Allowing him to use the vehicle is a separate matter. 

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Then they should chase the driver. I bet they made a mistake. It can't be right chasing someone that wasn't driving  unless there is some clause in the policy about such an incident. If there isint a clause then they are trying it on. If there is then he's signed a contract accepting it and will most likely have to pay. 

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the owner of the van lent his van to his mate,owner of van should have checked all insurance details to make sure his mate was covered to drive:hmm:,van owners responsibility

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3 minutes ago, andrewluke said:

the owner of the van lent his van to his mate,owner of van should have checked all insurance details to make sure his mate was covered to drive:hmm:,van owners responsibility

If this is the case then I will have to pay but what is a reasonable amount of checking?

I asked and was told he was insured.

Do I need to check the policy? The wording of the policy for any exclusions? His license? Breathalize him?

He's accepted responsibility and lack of cover is down to his misinterpretation of his own insurance yet I'm being stuck with the bill 

Most advice so far suggests that I will be liable, I just can't understand how.

Ombudsman will hopefully give me a a definitive answer tomorrow.

 

Edd

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You can end up paying from your insurance if your car is stolen and the driver discovered - even if you don’t know them. 

Thus is usually if the other parties insurance decide to persue the legal owner instead of the motor insurance bureau. 

 

Systers the lot of them. 

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