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But let's not confuse PCP  with lease as they are very different 

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2 minutes ago, button said:

But let's not confuse PCP  with lease as they are very different 

Same animal , different clothes.

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13 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Same animal , different clothes.

How is it? Lease you never have the option to buy, PCP you do

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The last 2 I bought one had 28miles on clock pre reg 6month old saved 7k on new .secound had 2k on 6 month old again pre reg saved 

6k .why buy brand new you loose out soon as you pick the keys you have made a loss .some people buy brand new just to have a brand new one sat on drive who nows its 6 month old if you don’t tell one 

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7 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Same animal , different clothes.

Exactly. PCPs used to be called Personal Lease Plans (PLPs). but the marketing folk decided that Personal Contract was more attractive than Personal Lease.

There's a market for every form of financial product, otherwise they wouldn't exist. PCPs are not automatically and always a bad idea. A case in point is someone such as my d-i-l  who gets a car allowance as part of her package. Her husband (my son) works in finance yet is quite happy for her to run a car on a PCP.

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31 minutes ago, button said:

How is it? Lease you never have the option to buy, PCP you do

As Westward pointed out, its exactly what I said, same animal.

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1 hour ago, button said:

How is it? Lease you never have the option to buy, PCP you do

Not quite so . I just returned a lease truck after four years . I asked if I could buy the truck and they said they couldn’t sell it directly to me  but could sell it to my wife if she wanted to buy it ,

harnset

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59 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

As Westward pointed out, its exactly what I said, same animal.

How is it? Putting the money into a vehicle with an option to buy is totally different to putting money into a vehicle you can never own?

4 minutes ago, Harnser said:

Not quite so . I just returned a lease truck after four years . I asked if I could buy the truck and they said they couldn’t sell it directly to me  but could sell it to my wife if she wanted to buy it ,

harnset

But they can not sell it to you, the fact they will sell to your wife is a loophole

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Personal Lease = Personal Contract Hire.  Example sites: Nationwide or Lings

Upsides

1) Leasing companies have enormous purchasing power and can dispose of car manufacturers excess production  - can get you into a new car regularly for relatively little money

2) Fixed monthly payment for pre-agreed mileage

3) Can include maintenance

4) Includes road fund licence (your name isn't on the V5)

5) Can be for periods as short as 1 year

 

Downsides

1) It's expensive to exit the contract early (typically 6 months payments or more)

2) Exceeding the agreed mileage can be eye wateringly expensive - conversely if you don't do the mileage you contracted for - there is no refund

3) You have to return the car in retail showroom condition - the contracts talk about fair wear and tear but in reality they returned vehicle needs to be in mint condition

4) Adding factory order options in expensive - ideally you need to stick to stock, std spec cars.

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16 minutes ago, RSQ3John said:

Personal Lease = Personal Contract Hire.  Example sites: Nationwide or Lings

Upsides

1) Leasing companies have enormous purchasing power and can dispose of car manufacturers excess production  - can get you into a new car regularly for relatively little money

2) Fixed monthly payment for pre-agreed mileage

3) Can include maintenance

4) Includes road fund licence (your name isn't on the V5)

5) Can be for periods as short as 1 year

 

Downsides

1) It's expensive to exit the contract early (typically 6 months payments or more)

2) Exceeding the agreed mileage can be eye wateringly expensive - conversely if you don't do the mileage you contracted for - there is no refund

3) You have to return the car in retail showroom condition - the contracts talk about fair wear and tear but in reality they returned vehicle needs to be in mint condition

4) Adding factory order options in expensive - ideally you need to stick to stock, std spec cars.

2) not necessarily true, you're told the charges in advance which are typically between 7-12p per mile so returning a car that's gone 2k over agreed mileage can cost less than a couple of hundred, hardly eye watering. If you go over by 15k however the sums involved can be rather noticeable but then in underestimating your true annual mileage at the outset you have underpaid during the term so again fair is fair. Like anything you need to understand the concept to make good/correct use of it. 

3) not true, the car has to be returned with fair wear and tear and industry agreed guides are available from the lease companies,  things such as minor bumper scuffs and bonnet stone chips as allowable, from memory I believe the alloys can have marks under 1cm too, what you can't do is return a car in a state that requires a grands worth of prep, steam clean and fabric/leather repair before anyone would consider sitting in it. 

Car finance is a bit like hare coursing, everybody knows everything about it and why they love or hate it but few have correct factual knowledge and experience of how it all works, to qualify my blunt response I will add that I've been in the trade for 20 years and had all kinds of finance including PCP, lease, contract hire and normal HP, they're not the same as one another, the only constant is that they all entail a monthly payment. 

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I have factual knowledge - trade apprentice through to working with car manufacturers and importers all over the world - now at about the 45 year mark.   I've leased many cars and can separate 'industry guidelines' from real world experience.

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14 hours ago, button said:

How is it? Putting the money into a vehicle with an option to buy is totally different to putting money into a vehicle you can never own?

But they can not sell it to you, the fact they will sell to your wife is a loophole

Yes , what ever .

harnser

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1 hour ago, RSQ3John said:

I have factual knowledge - trade apprentice through to working with car manufacturers and importers all over the world - now at about the 45 year mark.   I've leased many cars and can separate 'industry guidelines' from real world experience.

Agreed it's clear form your post you have some factual knowledge but the bits highlighted demonstrate where your information was flawed. 

The industry guidelines are freely available and can be used to form the basis of a formal dispute should the lease company or their agents try and pull a fast one. I've handed back several cars and never had a single issue. 

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1 hour ago, Hamster said:

Agreed it's clear form your post you have some factual knowledge but the bits highlighted demonstrate where your information was flawed. 

The industry guidelines are freely available and can be used to form the basis of a formal dispute should the lease company or their agents try and pull a fast one. I've handed back several cars and never had a single issue. 

👍100%

 

3 hours ago, Hamster said:

2) not necessarily true, you're told the charges in advance which are typically between 7-12p per mile so returning a car that's gone 2k over agreed mileage can cost less than a couple of hundred, hardly eye watering. If you go over by 15k however the sums involved can be rather noticeable but then in underestimating your true annual mileage at the outset you have underpaid during the term so again fair is fair. Like anything you need to understand the concept to make good/correct use of it. 

3) not true, the car has to be returned with fair wear and tear and industry agreed guides are available from the lease companies,  things such as minor bumper scuffs and bonnet stone chips as allowable, from memory I believe the alloys can have marks under 1cm too, what you can't do is return a car in a state that requires a grands worth of prep, steam clean and fabric/leather repair before anyone would consider sitting in it. 

Car finance is a bit like hare coursing, everybody knows everything about it and why they love or hate it but few have correct factual knowledge and experience of how it all works, to qualify my blunt response I will add that I've been in the trade for 20 years and had all kinds of finance including PCP, lease, contract hire and normal HP, they're not the same as one another, the only constant is that they all entail a monthly payment. 

Well put

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3 hours ago, Hamster said:

3) not true, the car has to be returned with fair wear and tear and industry agreed guides are available from the lease companies,  things such as minor bumper scuffs and bonnet stone chips as allowable, from memory I believe the alloys can have marks under 1cm too, what you can't do is return a car in a state that requires a grands worth of prep, steam clean and fabric/leather repair before anyone would consider sitting in it. 

 

Absolutely depends on the company.
I do at least one repair a week on PCP cars for various people, wheel scuffs far smaller than 1 cm are sometimes charged as a full refurb, sometimes wheels that are absolutely hammered get passed.
Tyres with less than 4 mm tread are charged for sometimes, and bald ones sometimes pass.

Ive had inspectors running their fingers down the edge of doors and finding chips that are invisible to the naked eye, new seats put down for a small amount of wear, it all depends on the person inspecting, and how much money that company wants to make off you on return.

Ive even had cars that havnt been repaired (to the clients knowledge) rejected for 'poor paintwork !

The best bit , is none of these cars get the work done that the inspectors mark them down for, as most of the time , they are driven straight to auction.

Yes you can contest it, sometimes you might even win, but its a serious consideration when taking the deal on, as Im sure many on here who have, can tell you.

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26 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Absolutely depends on the company.
I do at least one repair a week on PCP cars for various people, wheel scuffs far smaller than 1 cm are sometimes charged as a full refurb, sometimes wheels that are absolutely hammered get passed.
Tyres with less than 4 mm tread are charged for sometimes, and bald ones sometimes pass.

Ive had inspectors running their fingers down the edge of doors and finding chips that are invisible to the naked eye, new seats put down for a small amount of wear, it all depends on the person inspecting, and how much money that company wants to make off you on return.

Ive even had cars that havnt been repaired (to the clients knowledge) rejected for 'poor paintwork !

The best bit , is none of these cars get the work done that the inspectors mark them down for, as most of the time , they are driven straight to auction.

Yes you can contest it, sometimes you might even win, but its a serious consideration when taking the deal on, as Im sure many on here who have, can tell you.

Not in my professional as well as regular customer experience. 

Typically you have to MOT the car prior to handback and failed tyres would show up, no company or agent can get away with requesting that the tyres condition be above and beyond MOT requirement, not unless they suffer visible safety related damage after the MOT date. 

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3 minutes ago, Hamster said:

Typically you have to MOT the car prior to handback and failed tyres would show up, no company or agent can get away with requesting that the tyres condition be above and beyond MOT requirement, not unless they suffer visible safety related damage after the MOT date. 

Sorry Hamid , this has happened multiple times.
I know they are not going to change those tyres, its just a way of building up a bill for you before handback, just like the paintwork and interior, but its far from consistent.

You have to MOT the car before handback ? 90% arent 3 years old , so dont need one, never known that ?

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3 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Sorry Hamid , this has happened multiple times.
I know they are not going to change those tyres, its just a way of building up a bill for you before handback, just like the paintwork and interior, but its far from consistent.

You have to MOT the car before handback ? 90% arent 3 years old , so dont need one, never known that ?

You typically have to MOT those on 36 month packages because the argument goes that since they'll need to be driven away at some point, it makes sense to do this just before they're 3 years old, same for Motability cars incidentally. 

The mechanism exists for you to remonstrate against unfair charges, taking dozens of good quality pictures of all panels (whilst the inspection is being carried out if need be ;) ) is just one way of protecting oneself. 

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1 minute ago, Hamster said:

You typically have to MOT those on 36 month packages because the argument goes that since they'll need to be driven away at some point, it makes sense to do this just before they're 3 years old, same for Motability cars incidentally. 

Perfectly understandable for 3 year plans, but many I do are 2 or even 1 year sometimes.

 

1 minute ago, Hamster said:

The mechanism exists for you to remonstrate against unfair charges, taking dozens of good quality pictures of all panels (whilst the inspection is being carried out if need be ;) ) is just one way of protecting oneself. 

Im sure it does , and some customers quite rightly will not stand for it, one man followed his car to auction, and was successful in proving the £1000 odd worth of work they put down for was never carried out.
Quite often its just a couple of hundred, and they cant be bothered with the hassle to contest.

There have even been instances where theyve signed the car off, and then come back and say theyve noticed damage on it, you get an old dear get stuck with something like that, and they dont know how to deal with it.

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