Woodpigeons...the way ahead

[Mice!]

1 hour ago, adzyvilla said:

most couldn't care either way what we do, there is just a very vocal minority out there causing trouble

Your right, the problem these days is click click and you've added your name to a petition that someone linked you too. Doesn't matter that most folk couldn't care less, its so easy for people to make a fuss about things and cause trouble, that's why were in this current pile of err, smells and its brown.

[otherwayup]

On 27/04/2019 at 21:00, matone said:

Wasn`t there a .Gov funded report published last year that said Woodpigeons needed to be controlled as a pest and that summertime shooting was the only effective method? 

We need BASC, CA and NFU to fund the summarising of any existing study results that show the non lethal methods don't work, generally. Then make it available on their websites, so we can all refer to it if asked.

[silver fox 1]

5 hours ago, mick miller said:

Slightly broader than 'Pigeons, the way ahead'. I'd like to suggest something else.

Shooting the way ahead.

Those people that post videos and photos of dead stuff all over Facebook, forums and any other social media need to realise that their actions, in part, are responsible for some of this. Fine if you want pictures of dead stuff but try and keep them to yourself or show only others that may be interested. Splashing it all over Facebook and the internet is a daft idea. For years people in towns and cities have been blissfully ignorant of what happens outside in their playgrounds (the countryside). Not anymore they're not. Now they just need to login to youtube and type in 'long range crow' to see exploits of derring do with a rifle. They don't need to see it do they? And does your ego really require that much of a boost?

So, I propose that, from now on, when you feel a bit in need of an ego boost or a like you simply go out and do something for conservation, film yourself putting up some nest boxes, or maintaining some hedgerow. Film that and post the pictures to your Facebook account under whichever shooting group you like. That's going to do way more to win over public support than a fox with it innards hanging out, impressive though that shot was and as devastating as a ballistic tip at 3500fps is.

Thoughts?

 

 I’m pretty sure this doesn’t help,  there were some lads around here a couple of weeks ago That shot 480 pigeons in one day Fairplay to them they haven’t done anything wrong and that was done under crop protection we had flocks of four 5000 birds and the farmer was pulling his hair out  The crop damage  is Massive and if something wasn’t done the  farmer could lose the  Field   If he hasn’t already, it was all put on Social media  fine if you’re a  shooting man   But some people just see it as a massacre without understanding what’s going on 

[ninjaferret]

The big players, BASC, NGO, NFU, SACS, ETC ETC need to write a general licence that works for all of us. And then go to NE with the suggestion and persuade them that this helps. Because bet your bottom dollar now Packham and his cronies have started the ball rolling, they won't be stopping it anytime soon. Where next ? Scotland, Wales, Ireland ? C'mon wake up and smell the coffee, the UK needs to stand together on this , because believe me it won't be long.

[motty]

On ‎28‎/‎04‎/‎2019 at 09:12, silver fox 1 said:

 The more I think about it it makes perfect sense pigeons should actually be treated as a pest  and taken off the general license  their numbers are prolific and they don’t need to be protected at the moment  so maybe Chris Packham might of just done us a favour because the general licenses are being sorted out at the moment maybe gives us a platform to lobby and shooting organisations to push to get the pigeon took off the general license maybe  just maybe if we all get together and get a petition going and put it into a shooting organisations we might get somewhere and Mr Packham would’ve scored an own goal has anybody thought of this  and it also takes the pressure off of natural England 

I believe pigeons and all corvids should enjoy the same status as rabbits. We should be able to shoot them unconditionally all year round, with maybe the exception of lamping at night.

[old'un]

11 minutes ago, motty said:

I believe pigeons and all corvids should enjoy the same status as rabbits. We should be able to shoot them unconditionally all year round, with maybe the exception of lamping at night.

we all know what we would like, but there’s one big problem with that….Packham & Co.

[motty]

16 hours ago, mick miller said:

Slightly broader than 'Pigeons, the way ahead'. I'd like to suggest something else.

Shooting the way ahead.

Those people that post videos and photos of dead stuff all over Facebook, forums and any other social media need to realise that their actions, in part, are responsible for some of this. Fine if you want pictures of dead stuff but try and keep them to yourself or show only others that may be interested. Splashing it all over Facebook and the internet is a daft idea. For years people in towns and cities have been blissfully ignorant of what happens outside in their playgrounds (the countryside). Not anymore they're not. Now they just need to login to youtube and type in 'long range crow' to see exploits of derring do with a rifle. They don't need to see it do they? And does your ego really require that much of a boost?

So, I propose that, from now on, when you feel a bit in need of an ego boost or a like you simply go out and do something for conservation, film yourself putting up some nest boxes, or maintaining some hedgerow. Film that and post the pictures to your Facebook account under whichever shooting group you like. That's going to do way more to win over public support than a fox with it innards hanging out, impressive though that shot was and as devastating as a ballistic tip at 3500fps is.

Thoughts?

 

I disagree. We should not be treating our way of life as a dirty little secret.

Why pretend shooting doesn't take place?

A pile of dead birds etc is the result of a satisfactory day. It is a shame that it offends some people, but that is life.

[motty]

15 hours ago, adzyvilla said:

I totally agree. We (as country sports enthusiasts) have been on the back foot for years constantly having to give ground and keep the peace, not making any waves whilst our opponents pick off bits of our legally enjoyed past times. We have to play by the rules whilst being harassed and even trying to defend ourselves seems to be viewed by some as too aggressive an approach. It's high time our organisations stuck up for us. 

Public opinion is often misrepresented by our opponents as a stick to beat us with. From conversations with work colleagues or friends, most couldn't care either way what we do, there is just a very vocal minority out there causing trouble.

I totally agree with this. I have put up antis trespassing on land in the past, just so they could tell me what a disgusting piece of scum I was. I should have reported these incidents.

Our organisations should be doing more. BASC et al need to get more mainstream media time.

[JDog]

7 minutes ago, motty said:

I disagree. We should not be treating our way of life as a dirty little secret.

Why pretend shooting doesn't take place?

A pile of dead birds etc is the result of a satisfactory day. It is a shame that it offends some people, but that is life.

Agreed. A decent bag is a job well done.

 

[Walker570]

I see Chris P has garnered a huge amount of publicity and no doubt support as a result of some moron or morons sending death threats and bags of excreta to his home.  Great, thanks a lot, that will help our side of the argument a lot.

With regard to 'social media' I refrain from comment or the mods would be all over me and I would be history.

[ditchman]

Im glad Motty has stuck his head above the parapit................i agree entirly with what he says...........our way of life and the city way of life is different

20 minutes ago, motty said:

I disagree. We should not be treating our way of life as a dirty little secret.

Why pretend shooting doesn't take place?

A pile of dead birds etc is the result of a satisfactory day. It is a shame that it offends some people, but that is life.

 

[mick miller]

When did I say dirty little secret? 

Why post gratuitous guts out, bloody photos? It does us no favours and, out of context, is just ammunition to be used against us. 

Perhaps a photo of damaged crop alongside the photo of a pile of pigeons would help to contextualise the photo for those that think we're just murdering wildlife for fun? 

Whilst a more robust 'attack' of these bodies is one approach, a sensible 'defence' should also be a consideration. 

Edited May 1, 2019 by mick miller

[Stonepark]

The British way has always been to live and let live and respect each others rights and ignore radical extremists, and take the measured sensible route however the anti's and the liberal biased media now no longer make that stance feasible as polititians are both mainly townies and now act in fear of a percieved bad media reputation and as such now no longet stand up for individual rights as they did in the past.

 

UK shooting orgs now also need to become political and unfortunately take up an antagonistic position to the anti's in order to preserve our personal freedoms to shoot and hunt otherwise they will be removed both demacratically by bring out voted by liberals and undemocratically by QUANGO's and other organisations.

[marsh man]

31 minutes ago, motty said:

I disagree. We should not be treating our way of life as a dirty little secret.

Why pretend shooting doesn't take place?

A pile of dead birds etc is the result of a satisfactory day. It is a shame that it offends some people, but that is life.

I think we have to accept we are living in a totally different world as far as shooting goes than we did even say ten years ago , at one time the keepers hung all the dead vermin along a fence so that everyone within reason could see what a good job he was doing , then sooner or later the antis got wind of what he was up to and then his peaceful way of life was all but done for, first it was his rearing pens being smashed to bits , then if he had enough game to shoot they were out in force on the shoot days.

Only today in the E D P there was an article where a game farm had just got broken into and according to the paper 9000 birds were released from the pens .

Same when my brother worked for Coypu Control , towards the end of the campaign they had to take off all the signs off the vans that had Coypu Control on because the do gooders were getting wind that the Coypu was becoming extinct and that was well before the general public had computers .

I agree there is nothing wrong with our way of life but we have to accept it don't appeal to a lot of the public who don't look at it the same way that we do , yes by all means tell the members what yours days have been like , both good and bad but is it really necessary to lay a huge bag of pigeons out for everyone to see ?. 

Like the saying , A picture speaks louder than a thousand words .

[silver fox 1]

1 hour ago, motty said:

I disagree. We should not be treating our way of life as a dirty little secret.

Why pretend shooting doesn't take place?

A pile of dead birds etc is the result of a satisfactory day. It is a shame that it offends some people, but that is life.

 Maybe nothing wrong with putting it on social  media  maybe some information with it, something on the lines of  The pigeons were really damaging the crops  and the farmer asked if we could help  The result we had a good day shooting 

30 minutes ago, mick miller said:

When did I say dirty little secret? 

Why post gratuitous guts out, bloody photos? It does us no favours and, out of context, is just ammunition to be used against us. 

Perhaps a photo of damaged crop alongside the photo of a pile of pigeons would help to contextualise the photo for those that think we're just murdering wildlife for fun? 

Whilst a more robust 'attack' of these bodies is one approach, a sensible 'defence' should also be a consideration. 

This 👍.maybe being a bit selective with your photos as well  Will not hurt after all it’s the way things are presented  that count 

[motty]

1 minute ago, silver fox 1 said:

 Maybe nothing wrong with putting it on social  media  maybe some information with it, something on the lines of  The pigeons were really damaging the crops  and the farmer asked if we could help  The result we had a good day shooting 

This 👍.maybe being a bit selective with your photos as well  Will not hurt after all it’s the way things are presented  that count 

We are going down an even more slippery slope, when we are seen to be apologising for what we do.

Also, as I have said before, all pigeons shot will never breed or eat crops again.

[silver fox 1]

11 minutes ago, motty said:

We are going down an even more slippery slope, when we are seen to be apologising for what we do.

Also, as I have said before, all pigeons shot will never breed or eat crops again.

 Who is apologising,  i’m pretty sure pictures of foxes with half his face missing or its guts hanging out wouldn’t do us any favours 

[silver fox 1]

 Anyway drifting off topic now maybe the subject of another thread. I think the point is for all of us especially me I love what I do and I do it for a reason I’m involved in all aspects of shooting and think it should be portrayed in the best light possible because I want to continue  doing what I love doing it’s a way of life for me . I don’t do Facebook too many idiots and I don’t post photos of what I shoot anywhere even on here I’m not saying that people shouldn’t it’s just a personal thing to me.

Edited May 1, 2019 by silver fox 1

[old'un]

4 minutes ago, silver fox 1 said:

 Anyway drifting off topic now maybe the subject of another thread. I think the point is for all of us especially me I love what I do and I do it for a reason I’m involved in all aspects of shooting and think it should be portrayed in the best light possible because I want to continue  doing what I love doing it’s a way of life for me . I don’t do Facebook too many idiots and I don’t post photos of what I shoot anywhere even on here I’m not saying that people shouldn’t it’s just a personal thing to me.

The RSPB do “pest” control on their reserves but they publish their results in a way that is acceptable to the members/public….https://community.rspb.org.uk/ourwork/b/martinharper/posts/the-conservationist-39-s-dilemma-an-update-on-the-science-policy-and-practice-of-the-impact-of-predators-on-wild-birds-5

[mick miller]

23 minutes ago, old'un said:

The RSPB do “pest” control on their reserves but they publish their results in a way that is acceptable to the members/public….https://community.rspb.org.uk/ourwork/b/martinharper/posts/the-conservationist-39-s-dilemma-an-update-on-the-science-policy-and-practice-of-the-impact-of-predators-on-wild-birds-5

This is the type of approach that will work to our benefit, albeit a much distilled, compressed, abridged version but the details that go along with a post make the difference to a wider audience.

If you put 'had a great day on the pigeons and a massive bag' followed by trophy shot of a pile of dead stuff and two dogs that's not going to win any 'likes' from the wider audience. However, if you put ' farmer was having a terrible problem with pest pigeons destroying the crop and despite using gas guns / scarecrows / flags (you get the idea) they kept coming back in day after day - a days shooting seems to have finally put them off for a while though' that could be considered more acceptable.

Similarly fox predation, perhaps show how they've got in and the results, rather than that long range shot of a fox getting nailed, or just don't put it up at all? Deer stalking, no need for shared online trophy shots posing with the dead beast, just keep sharing to like minded individuals?

[McSpredder]

 

2 hours ago, mick miller said:

..... farmer was having a terrible problem with pest pigeons destroying the crop and despite using gas guns / scarecrows / flags (you get the idea) they kept coming back in day after day - a days shooting seems to have finally put them off for a while ....

...and take the opportunity to remind folk that culling is not done only be farmers:

".....farmer was having a terrible problem with pest pigeons destroying the crop and despite using gas guns / scarecrows / flags  they kept coming back in day after day.  He therefore arranged for some of the pigeons to be shot, the same method that RSPB regularly use to cull many hundreds of predators and other vertebrates every year on in order to protect vulnerable species on their own reserves.....

[mick miller]

@McSpredder 👍

[silver fox 1]

46 minutes ago, McSpredder said:

 

...and take the opportunity to remind folk that culling is not done only be farmers:

".....farmer was having a terrible problem with pest pigeons destroying the crop and despite using gas guns / scarecrows / flags  they kept coming back in day after day.  He therefore arranged for some of the pigeons to be shot, the same method that RSPB regularly use to cull many hundreds of predators and other vertebrates every year on in order to protect vulnerable species on their own reserves.....

 I like it ,That way they can’t have a go at us without having a go at the RSPB👍  I think I will be putting that on  any log  I have to keep 

[JDog]

Without giving an inch on my thoughts about shooting pest species perhaps more pictures should show crop damage when it is obvious. Of course it is not obvious on stubbles nor roosting and flighting but pests need to be shot whenever they can be in my simplistic view.

These photos are from today 1st May.

 

[motty]

13 minutes ago, JDog said:

Without giving an inch on my thoughts about shooting pest species perhaps more pictures should show crop damage when it is obvious. Of course it is not obvious on stubbles nor roosting and flighting but pests need to be shot whenever they can be in my simplistic view.

These photos are from today 1st May.

 

Exactly! I have a few fields to shoot that look the same. If stubble and roost shooting are curtailed, this kind of damage will be multiplied considerably.

I would imagine that 85% of the pigeons killed in the country are shot over "non crop" fields.