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Changes To The General Licence


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7 hours ago, Ultrastu said:

Why has there been nothing so far in the national news about this .its a big thing 

A change in law that potentially criminalizes 10,000s of people over night .

Some how think if driving was banned tomorrow it might make the news. 

It may well be a "big thing" to us, but we are a minority and of little interest to the rest of the country!

6 hours ago, Tedward said:

Just watched BBC news and Newsnight, no mention - anything on ITV ?

Are you really surprised?

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BBC radio 4, Farming Today had a slot about it according to the website. 

I'll listen to that a bit later.

Frankly I feel we should wait until NE provide clarity and information about what we all do next. We can shoot legally today.

Anyone flouting the law after today will provide evidence for the antis.

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3 minutes ago, youngratter said:

Surely NE has to follow their own procedure and notify everyone who uses the GL by writing??

As a 'General Licence' the use of which is not individually registered, they have no way of knowing who uses it, or how to contact users.

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So what petition do i sign?? where do i go to help?? is anyone doing anything to counteract this mental desicion? .i want my kids to know what its like to wake up and here song birds shurly someone is doing something .we need to act now .us countryside folk always get trampled on by leftist loons with no idea what the real outcome will be  lets not roll over on this one

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The licence itself can be 'used' (as I understand it) by anyone who needs to - and they do not need to register it's use.

As a landowner, I do not have (in the past anyway) to inform NE that I, or anyone to whom I have given permission is shooting under the terms and conditions of that licence.

Edited by JohnfromUK
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2 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

The licence itself can be 'used' (as I understand it) by anyone who needs to - and they do not need to register it's use.

As a landowner, I do not have (in the past anyway) to inform NE that I, or anyone to whom I have given permission is shooting under the trems and conditions of that licence.

That is what I'm saying, surely they will have to write to land owners at the minimum? Surely they will have access to the info to achieve that?

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4 minutes ago, Ozz said:

So what petition do i sign?? where do i go to help?? is anyone doing anything to counteract this mental desicion? .i want my kids to know what its like to wake up and here song birds shurly someone is doing something .we need to act now .us countryside folk always get trampled on by leftist loons with no idea what the real outcome will be  lets not roll over on this one

There are a variety of links in this thread to petitions, complaints, and various updates from NGO, BASC, an MP etc.  Things are 'ongoing' to put in place a replacement for the licenses that have been revoked.

1 minute ago, youngratter said:

That is what I'm saying, surely they will have to write to land owners at the minimum? Surely they will have access to the info to achieve that?

I'm not sure how they know all of the possible landowners.  They certainly won't know which are actively using the licenses, and which licence (there are three concerned).

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1 minute ago, youngratter said:

That is what I'm saying, surely they will have to write to land owners at the minimum? Surely they will have access to the info to achieve that?

No, not really, notification via the press and their website etc will have covered it to a reasonable degree. They could not possibly contact each individual "landowner" as so many people own a bit of "land".

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56 minutes ago, matone said:

Rishi Sunak MP has posted a summary of his work on this issue on Guns on pegs ,which is informative and to be applauded.

As of 8pm tonight

Thank you for contacting me about the Natural England removing the 3 General Licenses tomorrow. 

Like you, I was shocked to hear this news and extremely disappointed. I fully appreciate and understand the considerable disruption this action causes to our agricultural community and rural economy and the livelihoods of many.
 
As soon as I heard the news yesterday, I was in touch with the relevant Minister to strongly convey my thoughts. This evening, I spent over an hour with the Minister and the Chief Executive of Natural England (and her team). Together with many rural MPs, we have expressed our frustration in no uncertain terms and impressed various things for NE and DEFRA to now act on to improve the situation. 
 
Why are we here? In a nutshell the 3 general licences that cover the control 16 wild bird species were not lawful as NE did not have an appropriate assessment of need to underpin them (even though they have been using them for years). A court case due to be heard today/tomorrow (brought by environmental campaigners) would have found against NE and NE felt it therefore had no choice but to revoke the licenses.  It seems clear that there has been a failure at NE. They should have taken remedial steps far sooner so as not to end up in this situation now  - there should be accountability for this at the appropriate time.
 
But in terms of practical next steps, this is what I currently believe will be happening and what I am pushing for:

From midnight tomorrow the 3 general licences covering control of 16 bird species will be removed 
 
Starting Monday, NE will be issuing new general licenses that will cover “the vast majority” of existing uses of the 3 licenses. These new licenses will be more specific (so as to be more legally sound, each license will have to cover one specific species together with one set of circumstances. eg wood pigeon and economic damage to crops). 
 
It will take “weeks, not months” for all these new general licenses to be issued (perhaps more than 30 licenses)
 
A schedule of what new licenses are coming when may be available as soon as tomorrow but by Monday 
 
NE are now working with key stakeholders (specifically bodies like BASC, Countryside Alliance, GWCT, NFU etc) to get from them the list of priority bird control situations that need to be covered ASAP
 
In the interim, until a new general license for your particular situation has been issued, NE are working on a simplified “individual license/notification” system which should be up and running tomorrow night. This would involve a landowner filling in an online form, ~5 mins of various tick boxes an brief explanation of what they want to control and why. Ideally they should then receive a very quick, if not immediate, response giving them permission to keep controlling for those circumstances so for the time being. The legal basis for this is being worked out as we speak. 
 
I have impressed upon NE the importance of putting this all in a simple guide for farmers, gamekeepers, landowners etc which NE say they plan to have ready tomorrow. I have also asked for them to consider establishing a simple hotline number for people to call for advice 
 
As the list of new licenses comes online please let me know if your particular use case is not covered. I have secured a contact at NE that I can feed these into for them to prioritise.
 
In the summer, NE will conduct a full review of the license system
I am very sorry this has happened. I know the real disruption and concern it is causing you and our community. Rest assured, I am fully focused on this issue and working as hard as I can to improve the situation. 

I believe the Ministers in charge understand the gravity of this change.
 
I will be in touch again when I have more information. I would be most grateful if you could forward this email to any of your friends and colleagues who you believe will be affected by this. 
 
Thank you again for contacting me and also for your support even though you have every right to feel let down by what has happened.  
 
Kind regards,
Rishi    
 
Rishi Sunak
Member of Parliament for Richmond (Yorks)
Minister for Local Government

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11 minutes ago, Ozz said:

So what petition do i sign?? where do i go to help?? is anyone doing anything to counteract this mental desicion? .i want my kids to know what its like to wake up and here song birds shurly someone is doing something .we need to act now .us countryside folk always get trampled on by leftist loons with no idea what the real outcome will be  lets not roll over on this one

The major shooting organisations are working to clarify, update and work with NE to resolve the confusion and message. There are seemingly umpteen petitions doing the rounds that only take a minute to sign although personally I feel a letter or email to our respective MP will assist in bringing our displeasure and concerns to the powers that be.

It's not a case of "somebody should do something" but more of a case of each and every one of us motivating ourselves individually. What I mean by that is get writing, emailing and supporting our representative bodies.

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19 hours ago, mossy835 said:

so will all of us have to apply for a licence to shoot pigeons crows rocks and so on.

I have just spoken to one of my farms and told them to make an application and tell all their other farm contacts to do the same now.  I suggest you all contact your farmers and get them to do the same without delay, deluge the system. The applications from farmers will have a greater impact than individual shooters. 

Even dairy farms for biosecurity reasons, corvids entering feed stores and feral pigeon control.

Edited by Walker570
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10 hours ago, Dekers said:

 

 

untitled-header-5.jpg

BASC Head Office, Marford Mill, Rossett, Wrexham, LL12 0HL
Contact 

---

Important news on general licences


Natural England announces temporary revocation

 

BASC is advising members that Natural England (NE) is temporarily revoking three general licences in England for controlling certain wild birds from Thursday this week.

These licences (GL 04/05/06) cover 16 species of birds including several members of the crow family, Canada goose and some gulls and pigeons. There is uncertainty as to when the temporary revocation will end.

During that time, anyone needing to control one of these 16 bird species where there is no reasonable non-lethal alternative will need to apply for an individual licence. Natural England says it has simplified the process for applying for such a licence and details will be available on its gov.uk website on Thursday.

NE says this action is the first stage of a planned review of general and class licences, which will be completed this year. The change follows a legal challenge to the way the licences have been issued, which could mean users who rely on them are not acting lawfully.

BASC is disappointed that the shooting community has been given no notice of this change to the general licences. The situation is rapidly changing and we will update members as new information becomes available. Our website will provide the latest information.

---

© 2019 BASC - British Association for Shooting and Conservation
Registered Office: Marford Mill, Rossett, Wrexham, LL12 0HL
Registered Society No: 28488R

 

This turned up in my mailbox at 01.41 this morning.  I am not for one minute defending the BASC, They should have been on the case when Packhams shower first muted this challenge, but I did get an email from them, I obviously have no clue why other members apparently haven't

Thanks Dekers.

Would have been helpful if it was BASC that sent this to all the members and not rely on being posted on a shooting forum. Seems we were all able to act faster than they have. Potentially, a high proportion of their members would be unknowingly, be committing a criminal act, with firearms,  if out tomorrow. At the time of writing this, it’s only PW and my friend that made me aware. I’ve not seen it anywhere in the press. So I’m very sure, there will be people out tomorrow that haven’t the slightest idea of the revocation. 

Wild justice would love that, as those would be portrayed as flouting the law. 

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7 minutes ago, dodgy dave said:

i see the daily mail have gave us a good write up  today by guy walters i dont see that any shooting mag could do as good as that worth a read page 19 

Available 'on line' here; https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6957419/Natural-England-changed-law-stop-farmers-culling-Britains-12million-PIGEONS.html

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14 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

Good piece.

Mark Avery on the Radio 4 Today programme speaking about the GL issue as I type. No rep from NE but they have Baroness Mallalieu of the Countryside Alliance...

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