Changes To The General Licence

[SurreySquireler]

1 minute ago, Zapp said:

We are cursed by far too many liabillities with guns who are going to ruin it for everyone I fear.

I couldn't agree more with this! Its the same way I feel when gamekeepers are found to have killed birds of prey illegally; I know just how frustrating it can be to watch them kill the birds you have put so much time and effort into, however it is not worth the risk of having all of shooting given a bad name from it! They need to see the bigger picture that beyond their season bag total they will, if they continue, get all shooting banned completely. Surely its better to lose a few birds, however painful it is at the time, than have all of shooting tared with the same brush.

[Jelly]

3 minutes ago, Zapp said:

I just heard about the dead crow thing on the radio on the way back from the station.

Well, that's all the momentum handed over to those who want shooting banned then.  The first thing most of the public (who for the most part are instinctively against shooting) are hearing is that some mouth-breathers have gone and hung a load of dead things on CP's gate in response to the legal challenge, which will reinforce all the kneejerk biases about us.  Any attempt to put forward a counternarrative in favour of shooting now will now be hijacked and our message will be lost while spokesmen have to distance themselves from what has happened.

This is the first time in this whole thing I've genuinely worried that the writing may be on the wall.  I've shot since I was 9and have taught my sons to shoot - I'm bitterly angry that at such a crucial moment someone who is ostensibly "one of us" may have just put it all in jeapordy.  We are cursed by far too many liabillities with guns who are going to ruin it for everyone I fear.

Utterly, utterly in despair.

  

  

Absolutely spot on. The mind boggles how someone in the community thought this is a sensible response. All it does it give ammunition to the opposition to use against us and undermines any reasoned and well thought out argument presented in support of shooting under the general license. In the grand scheme of news worthy stories, more papers will be interested in this than the plight for crop protection. 

 

A massive case of shooting oneself in the foot.

[mick miller]

GOV.UK petition, how does this sound?

 

[Harnser]

I have managed to calm my self down and have stopped sticking pins in an effigy of you know who . I think we need to slow down and see what happens next week . Let our shooting organisations do their bit and represent us . I think NE has dropped a ricket over the whole issue and are now trying to solve to solve the problem with out to much egg on their faces .  Calm down boys it will turn out fine . Incidently I know of a good witch doctor who is married to a senior witch up holt way .

harnser

[JohnfromUK]

5 minutes ago, Zapp said:

who is ostensibly "one of us" may have just put it all in jeapordy.

I suspect (and strongly hope) that it wasn't 'one of us'.  Like you - I believe it is a stupid thing to do and needs to be condemned by all genuine shooting and countryside people.  Quite possibly it is simply an anti establishment 'trouble maker' intent on stirring the whole issue up against what they see as the establishment.  Anyone who goes around doing something as completely stupid as glueing themselves to London's infrastructure might easily do such an action.

Whoever did it - it is wrong, stupid and I hope whoever did it is caught and suitably punished under the law.

[steve_b_wales]

BASC - The British Association for Shooting and Conservation

37 mins ·

⚠️LATEST INFORMATION⚠️
Natural England has advised that the online licencing application system will be live from 5pm today (Thursday).

We will update as soon as more information becomes available: https://basc.org.uk/ne/

[Velocette]

NGO Update.

https://www.nationalgamekeepers.org.uk/articles/further-important-update-on-ne-licences

[old'un]

Be interesting to see just what the wording is in these new licences, will we have to prove we have tried ALL non-lethal methods first? Because that’s what WJ want.    

[ShootingEgg]

10 minutes ago, Jelly said:

Absolutely spot on. The mind boggles how someone in the community thought this is a sensible response. All it does it give ammunition to the opposition to use against us and undermines any reasoned and well thought out argument presented in support of shooting under the general license. In the grand scheme of news worthy stories, more papers will be interested in this than the plight for crop protection. 

 

A massive case of shooting oneself in the foot.

But who says it was anyone in the shooting community, unfortunately it has a massive finger pointed towards our commun, but who says some one else did this to put us in a bad light, who says it wasn't infact packham himself.. No cctv, no way of ever knowing who was responsible.. 

[mick miller]

Quote

To clarify, the Section 4 clause that NE are saying will cover you for any bird control necessary to protect crops and livestock is not a licence. It is a defence that people who kill a protected bird can use to defend themselves in court if prosecuted. It is only valid if you can show there was no other satisfactory solution to killing the bird and if you tell the Agriculture Minister what you have done as soon as reasonably possible after killing the bird in question. The NGO has taken legal advice on Section 4 in the past and been told it is untested in the courts and that it would be most unwise to rely on it.

 

[mossy835]

so on the form coming out, to shoot pigeon, rooks, and so would you just put crop protection

[tomaddy525]

10 minutes ago, Harnser said:

I have managed to calm my self down and have stopped sticking pins in an effigy of you know who . I think we need to slow down and see what happens next week . Let our shooting organisations do their bit and represent us . I think NE has dropped a ricket over the whole issue and are now trying to solve to solve the problem with out to much egg on their faces .  Calm down boys it will turn out fine . Incidently I know of a good witch doctor who is married to a senior witch up holt way .

harnser

This. Too many headless chickens 

[panoma1]

14 minutes ago, Zapp said:

I just heard about the dead crow thing on the radio on the way back from the station.

Well, that's all the momentum handed over to those who want shooting banned then.  The first thing most of the public (who for the most part are instinctively against shooting) are hearing is that some mouth-breathers have gone and hung a load of dead things on CP's gate in response to the legal challenge, which will reinforce all the kneejerk biases about us.  Any attempt to put forward a counternarrative in favour of shooting now will now be hijacked and our message will be lost while spokesmen have to distance themselves from what has happened.

This is the first time in this whole thing I've genuinely worried that the writing may be on the wall.  I've shot since I was 9and have taught my sons to shoot - I'm bitterly angry that at such a crucial moment someone who is ostensibly "one of us" may have just put it all in jeapordy.  We are cursed by far too many liabillities with guns who are going to ruin it for everyone I fear.

Utterly, utterly in despair.

  

  

It wouldn't be beyond the antis to do this themselves! That would wrest the high ground from the pro shooting lobby......Why do we presume it's a shooter?

Its Wild Justice that has shot themselves in the foot by putting already endangered and "at risk" species at further risk, by taking legal action that has lead to the removal of their protection from avian pests.

[snow white]

I have been looking on internet how do you go about applying for this new license I known at the moment I am ok in wales but I would like to be ready to apply when it happens here.❓

[turbo33]

23 minutes ago, Dekers said:

Who knows if it will work but at least its getting some attention.

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/entertainment/celebrity/chris-packham-petition-why-there-are-calls-for-the-bbc-to-sack-presenter-over-general-licence-campaign/ar-BBWh4w2?li=AAnZ9Ug&ocid=mailsignout

Interesting that article Deckers. When I checked it this morning, there were 75,000 supporters for his sacking. There were 3 others supporting him to not be sacked, two had 10 signatures and the other, 2000, yet the article states there are 70,000 supporters.  Interestingly, it seems very hard to find, and I've not succeeded yet with a Google search!!

[old'un]

7 minutes ago, tomaddy525 said:

This. Too many headless chickens 

Lets hope you are correct and its just a storm in a teacup and the sun will come up tomorrow and we will all be doing the same as before.

[ShootingEgg]

5 minutes ago, snow white said:

I have been looking on internet how do you go about applying for this new license I known at the moment I am ok in wales but I would like to be ready to apply when it happens here.❓

There is a Cwm page on NE, Google Natural England cwm. Then the register tab. But at 5pm tonight there is suposidly another form appearing. 

[Zapp]

8 minutes ago, panoma1 said:

It wouldn't be beyond the antis to do this themselves! That would wrest the high ground from the pro shooting lobby......Why do we presume it's a shooter?

Its Wild Justice that has shot themselves in the foot by putting already endangered and "at risk" species at further risk, by taking legal action that has lead to the removal of their protection from avian pests.

I know, but the number of people applauding it in the Facebook shooting groups suggest an awful lot of shooters think it was a good thing.

More importantly every comment I've seen from members of the public on non shooting news reports accepts it was a shooter and condems us.  The damage is done.

[JohnfromUK]

4 minutes ago, turbo33 said:

Interestingly, it seems very hard to find, and I've not succeeded yet with a Google search!!

I have tried as well - both Google and Change.org's own search facility.  Both find the petition calling for the BBC to sack him (now at 82,000).  The largest in support of him was less than 10% of that size (and there were several very small ones).

I suspect it is journalistic license again.

[SurreySquireler]

6 minutes ago, JohnfromUK said:

14 minutes ago, turbo33 said:

Interestingly, it seems very hard to find, and I've not succeeded yet with a Google search!!

I have tried as well - both Google and Change.org's own search facility.  Both find the petition calling for the BBC to sack him (now at 82,000).  The largest in support of him was less than 10% of that size (and there were several very small ones).

I suspect it is journalistic license again

https://www.change.org/p/bbc-don-t-sack-chris-packham This is the one they are on about although it has now closed which is rather fishy!

[Smokersmith]

10 minutes ago, tomaddy525 said:

This. Too many headless chickens 

I can't help but think that the outrage shown by many, has helped to move NE from where they started yesterday, to their latest position which seems to be much more in line with facilitating pigeon shooting.

 

[ditchman]

30 minutes ago, Harnser said:

I have managed to calm my self down and have stopped sticking pins in an effigy of you know who . I think we need to slow down and see what happens next week . Let our shooting organisations do their bit and represent us . I think NE has dropped a ricket over the whole issue and are now trying to solve to solve the problem with out to much egg on their faces .  Calm down boys it will turn out fine . Incidently I know of a good witch doctor who is married to a senior witch up holt way .

harnser

yup go with this................rather than attack chris packham .........i would much rather see him eventually totally discredited and outed as a miss infomation charleton that he is........

there is not a lot we can do other than be directed by our organisations to make representations...........i believe it will be sorted out and for the better........

[JohnfromUK]

1 minute ago, SurreySquireler said:

https://www.change.org/p/bbc-don-t-sack-chris-packham This is the one they are on about although it has now closed which is rather fishy!

Thank you - interesting; judging by the comments (which are dated) that one was 4 years ago.  I do seem to remember a previous one where he had a similar call to sack - followed by a 'remain' on - but can't now remember what it was all about.

[Rim Fire]

 

[Miserableolgit]

54 minutes ago, Zapp said:

I just heard about the dead crow thing on the radio on the way back from the station.

Well, that's all the momentum handed over to those who want shooting banned then.  The first thing most of the public (who for the most part are instinctively against shooting) are hearing is that some mouth-breathers have gone and hung a load of dead things on CP's gate in response to the legal challenge, which will reinforce all the kneejerk biases about us.  Any attempt to put forward a counternarrative in favour of shooting now will now be hijacked and our message will be lost while spokesmen have to distance themselves from what has happened.

This is the first time in this whole thing I've genuinely worried that the writing may be on the wall.  I've shot since I was 9and have taught my sons to shoot - I'm bitterly angry that at such a crucial moment someone who is ostensibly "one of us" may have just put it all in jeapordy.  We are cursed by far too many liabillities with guns who are going to ruin it for everyone I fear.

Utterly, utterly in despair.

  

  

 

Look, how do you know it was someone involved in the shooting community, it could have been done for all kinds of reasons by all kinds of people perhaps with interests in all kinds of groups. Perhaps the property has CCTV coverage? Perhaps it was done by a supporter of WJ in order to reflect badly on the shooting community, who knows!