Changes To The General Licence

[old'un]

One of the biggest stumbling blocks I can see is stubble shooting, we can perhaps justify shooting birds during the winter on rape and during the summer on seed crops, but the time of year when most shooters kill some of the biggest numbers are on the stubbles, I cannot see how they will write this into the new licences, if they do manage to include stubble shooting in the new licence I think WJ will be on it like a shot, asking, how do we justify killing birds when they are doing no damage.

[arjimlad]

Because they will flap over onto the field next door and bash the drillings/young plants ? It is about population management/reduction in arable areas, I do hope NE understands that.

[JohnfromUK]

1 hour ago, Bazooka Joe said:

This has being well thought out by Packham & Co & I've a feeling it's just the start, NE need to be ahead of the game on this & ready for more legal challenges.

It is run by Civil Servants who are simply 'enacting' government policy and legislation - and are simply burueacrats.  It is highly unlikely they will be either 'proactive', or ahead of anything - other than continually complaining about budget cuts.

They want a quiet life simply managing forms, paperwork and issuing simple licenses.  The idea of being legally challenged is not really on their radar.

I have never been a big fan (or serious critic) of the Civil Service, but they have really dropped the ball on this one.

[psycho]

The new licence does not mention what you can't do

Does that make a loophole for being able to use recorded calls to call in crows anyone know

[wymberley]

13 minutes ago, old'un said:

One of the biggest stumbling blocks I can see is stubble shooting, we can perhaps justify shooting birds during the winter on rape and during the summer on seed crops, but the time of year when most shooters kill some of the biggest numbers are on the stubbles, I cannot see how they will write this into the new licences, if they do manage to include stubble shooting in the new licence I think WJ will be on it like a shot, asking, how do we justify killing birds when they are doing no damage.

Have a look at Page 4 on the BASC thread and 243 Deer's post and his request for additional input in particular.

[CharlieT]

2 minutes ago, psycho said:

The new licence does not mention what you can't do

Does that make a loophole for being able to use recorded calls to call in crows anyone know

Not having had mine yet I don't know what it says. Perhaps you would be kind enough to post the wording so we can all see what it says.

[MarcMaxus]

3 hours ago, bavarianbrit said:

And it appears you have to buy the Adobe version????? Please correct me if wrong.

BB

I just posted a video in this thread that may help. You can just use the free version. Video explains. Hope it helps 

[Scully]

1 hour ago, bostonmick said:

So out of interest how do you prove you have tried all other means. And if it came down to it who decides if you have or have not. 

This is a good question, and one I wondered about. Are they going to take our word for it? If so, then what has changed? Am I missing something? 

[wymberley]

2 hours ago, Bazooka Joe said:

Hope so, NE & all the shooting orgs (for what use they are) have been caught with their pants down, & while there down they want a good kick up the **** to get them motivated.

This has being well thought out by Packham & Co & I've a feeling it's just the start, NE need to be ahead of the game on this & ready for more legal challenges.

Absolutely right, Joe and it's not just NE that needs to get ahead of the game - we do as well. If I were an anti with the undeniable charisma, eloquence of speech and the platform from which to preach that WJ has, then I'm equally positive that I could bring our sport to its knees. A clue was given some 8 pages ago. No one has commented on it so hopefully this means that I'm well out of order. I wish.

[Scully]

57 minutes ago, old'un said:

Because if someone approached you and asked why you were shooting pigeons the evidence of your attempts would still be on the field, hawk kites, gas gun, etc.

Fair point, but not necessarily so. Farmers and or shooters, are going to have to get used to the idea that they are now going to have to actually attempt what they claim they have done on their application. That isn't going to sit well with most of the farmers I know....asking for a signature is a major task for most. 🙂

[CharlieT]

2 minutes ago, Scully said:

This is a good question, and one I wondered about. Are they going to take our word for it? If so, then what has changed? Am I missing something? 

99% of the nonlethal means of deterrent are not within the remit of the hobby shooter. So it will be down to the shooter to satisfy himself that the landowner has done and is doing enough to enable the person doing the shooting to do so within the terms of the license. To break the terms of the license would be classed a wildlife crime and a good bye to any further license.

[HW682]

30 minutes ago, psycho said:

The new licence does not mention what you can't do

Does that make a loophole for being able to use recorded calls to call in crows anyone know

Basically, the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 tells you what you can't do, by default - unless you have authorisation (eg the General Licences or individual licences etc)

 

edit: add link https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1981/69

Quote

5 Prohibition of certain methods of killing or taking wild birds.E+W

(1)Subject to the provisions of this Part, if any person—

(a)sets in position any of the following articles, being an article which is of such a nature and is so placed as to be calculated to cause bodily injury to any wild bird coming into contact therewith, that is to say, any springe, trap, gin, snare, hook and line, any electrical device for killing, stunning or frightening or any poisonous, poisoned or stupefying substance;

(b)uses for the purpose of killing or taking any wild bird any such article as aforesaid, whether or not of such a nature and so placed as aforesaid, or any net, baited board, bird-lime or substance of a like nature to bird-lime;

(c)uses for the purpose of killing or taking any wild bird—

(i)any bow or crossbow;

(ii)any explosive other than ammunition for a firearm;

(iii)any automatic or semi-automatic weapon;

(iv)any shot-gun of which the barrel has an internal diameter at the muzzle of more than one and three-quarter inches;

(v)any device for illuminating a target or any sighting device for night shooting;

(vi)any form of artificial lighting or any mirror or other dazzling device;

(vii)any gas or smoke not falling within paragraphs (a) and (b); or

(viii)any chemical wetting agent;

(d)uses as a decoy, for the purpose of killing or taking any wild bird, any sound recording or any live bird or other animal whatever which is tethered, or which is secured by means of braces or other similar appliances, or which is blind, maimed or injured; F25 . . .

(e)uses any mechanically propelled vehicle in immediate pursuit of a wild bird for the purpose of killing or taking that bird, [F26 ; or

(f)knowingly causes or permits to be done an act which is mentioned in the foregoing provisions of this subsection and which is not lawful under subsection (5),]

he shall be guilty of an offenceF27. . . .

I haven't seen one of the new Individual Licences (IL), but the old GL's and the notes in the application process for new IL's did/do specifically permit the use of semi-autos, use of artificial lighting for ferrals and certain species of live bird decoys.

The old GL's used to have a reminder that sound recordings weren't permitted. But unless the new IL specifically permits it - then it isn't allowed whether the licence has a reminder or not.

Edited April 26, 2019 by HW682
add link

[Dibble]

"(iii)any automatic or semi-automatic weapon"

That clause is truly bizarre, not the semi-auto bit but the idea anyone would use a section 5 firearm?

[rheth]

so does this mean whirlys and flappers are illegal to use,section (e)

[mossy835]

so any one know if one licence will cover all farms,or one form per farm.

Edited April 26, 2019 by mossy835

[Shufti]

bbc look east on tv coming up.

At least more peeps will see whats happening.

[Bazooka Joe]

Quote

A clue was given some 8 pages ago. No one has commented on it so hopefully this means that I'm well out of order. I wish.

No I don't think you are Wym, just a matter of time before that happens IMO, along with a swathe of conditions to boot..

[B725]

1 hour ago, old'un said:

Because if someone approached you and asked why you were shooting pigeons the evidence of your attempts would still be on the field, hawk kites, gas gun, etc.

Unless it all got stolen. 

[CharlieT]

24 minutes ago, mossy835 said:

soany one know if one licence will cover all farms,or one form per farm.

I filled out one for each of my holdings as the box was only big enough to accept one grid reference number and full farm address.

But I sent them all attached to the same email.

[Swarovski]

On 23/04/2019 at 20:11, Wingman said:

I am absolutely livid about this how can it happen without any consultation with the shooting community. Fat lot of use the bodies that are meant to represent us have been. 

There about as much use as an ashtray on a motorbike 🤔🙄

[mossy835]

in that case i will have to send in 20 forms.

[HW682]

30 minutes ago, Dibble said:

"(iii)any automatic or semi-automatic weapon"

That clause is truly bizarre, not the semi-auto bit but the idea anyone would use a section 5 firearm?

Maybe they were more common in 1981 when the act was passed? (and not section 5 back then?)

Interestingly, the definitions in section 27 exclude a S2 "3 shot semi", so they are legal already for killing birds (these apply to game as well as pests etc).

Quote

“automatic weapon” and “semi-automatic weapon” do not include any weapon the magazine of which is incapable of holding more than two rounds

 

[rimmie]

It’s all changing again on Monday, don’t fill anything in until then. It’s meant to be “simplified” supposedly. 

[Swarovski]

34 minutes ago, mossy835 said:

so any one know if one licence will cover all farms,or one form per farm.

It would make more sense if the farms had to apply for the lisences not the shooters 

Edited April 26, 2019 by Swarovski

[mossy835]

if we got our own licences,any one who has not got one will not be aloud to shoot on the land you shoot on.