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Changes To The General Licence


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7 hours ago, lancer425 said:

You are not being naive at all just talking sense this whole disaster of GLs conceived out of necessity  down to a government mistake, long before the way too powerful pedantic NE  was ever dreamed of.  And it worked   Sort of . Packham and WJ saw a weakness and went for it. And we are where we are now.  Nothing has changed from times before that fateful day the government signed into the Agreement protecting these birds, the bodge job thats worked for years is no more. We need to go back to the 1981W&CA  picking up from the 1954 POBA . This should have been done after they made the mistake, we lived in simpler times and in fairness could never have envisaged this happening.   We do not know what’s going on behind the scenes, or what the government has planned, but NE are holding on to a tight line of over complicated restrictive measures, that wont work and will be expensive and inefficient to administer.  I myself believe NEs current raceme know this and do not care about the cost as long as their own personal agendas are catered for. Its high time the government got a grip and stopped this fiasco, its got real potential to hurt the country and its wildlife on so many different levels its not funny any more. 

 What is the cost ?  even just this  far it must be getting expensive , and for what? Fudging up a old fudge that was born from a government cock up in the first place.  UNREAL.

That is how I see things at the moment.

 

Gawd knows when this will ever get sorted out!

 

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8 hours ago, Good shot? said:

Please excuse me if I am being a bit naive or simple minded.

You are not naive or simple minded; in fact compared to the legislators in Natural England you come across more like Albert Einstein !

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1 minute ago, JJsDad said:

You are not naive or simple minded; in fact compared to the legislators in Natural England you come across more like Albert Einstein !

I am cynical:  These new licenses were drafted by lawyers ........ with the aim of lots of 'reasonable' phrases leaving everything open to court cases to define what is 'reasonable'.

They know Wild Justice have tame lawyers on tap and plenty of money to fund them - and are looking for plenty of lucrative legal work funded by WJ and the taxpayer (NE of DEFRA) with possible additions from BASC, NGO, NFU, CA etc.

They have drafted the new licenses to ensure plenty of work.

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13 minutes ago, old'un said:

BASC keep telling us the new GL for pigeons is unworkable, unsuitable for purpose etc, I wish they would highlight the parts that they think would leave us open to prosecution and why.

They've enough to do, and have probably been on it until the small hours. Read it and you will see how flawed it is.

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14 minutes ago, old'un said:

BASC keep telling us the new GL for pigeons is unworkable, unsuitable for purpose etc, I wish they would highlight the parts that they think would leave us open to prosecution and why.

Very valid point 

lay it out in black and Wight 

tell us what we can and can’t do and the amount of options we have to try first 

there must be a method statement for the control of avian pests used by the rspb and airport authorities these could be a starting point 

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8 minutes ago, turbo33 said:

They've enough to do, and have probably been on it until the small hours. Read it and you will see how flawed it is.

And they are paid to do it, lets face it they have not been very proactive until now.

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Just now, old'un said:

And they are paid to do it, lets face it they have not been very proactive until now.

The chairman of BASC, Peter Glenser is a QC. If he declares it unfit for purpose, thats good enough for me to understand the failings in the document. His time is better spent doing what he is, than to point out why its unfit. I appreciate your frustration old"un, we are all in the same boat. 

I do think BASC have been doing the best they can and working hard on resolving this. Their job is not made easier by media not allowing them a platform and ridiculous attempts at the new licenses. 

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13 minutes ago, turbo33 said:

The chairman of BASC, Peter Glenser is a QC. If he declares it unfit for purpose, thats good enough for me to understand the failings in the document. His time is better spent doing what he is, than to point out why its unfit. I appreciate your frustration old"un, we are all in the same boat. 

I do think BASC have been doing the best they can and working hard on resolving this. Their job is not made easier by media not allowing them a platform and ridiculous attempts at the new licenses. 

Sorry but that is just an excuse, if he had been more proactive six months ago he would have picked up that the old GL was unfit for purpose, with regards him being busy sorting this mess out and not having time, well I would think there’s more than one person on this case, well hopefully there is.

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Hi guys

There are few bright people on here, I’m not one I’ve been reading the rules on the GL and applied for this but there is a post today I’ve been reading that has me curious

Were i live there are crows and pigeons over new drillings and i have permission for this land, tried all the shoo go away and don’t come back and this isn’t working

Can someone be honest can i go out and shoot these from today fourth may 2019?

Cheers

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6 minutes ago, Neverforget said:

 

Hi guys

There are few bright people on here, I’m not one I’ve been reading the rules on the GL and applied for this but there is a post today I’ve been reading that has me curious

Were i live there are crows and pigeons over new drillings and i have permission for this land, tried all the shoo go away and don’t come back and this isn’t working

Can someone be honest can i go out and shoot these from today fourth may 2019?

Cheers

If you can tick all these boxes, then probably. However, due to the mass media coverage, its a high possibility, that a member of the public could call the police, as they have done in the past with legitimate decoyers, and switched on policeman may check to see you've complied with all the below. The choice is yours. The highlighted in bold is the most restrictive part in my opinion, and non compliance puts us most at risk from prosecution.

 

a) Only as a last resort to prevent serious damage*.

*: see Definitions

8. When this licence can be used

b) Before using the licence reasonable endeavours must have been made to resolve the problem using the lawful methods identified in Table 1 (unless their use would be impractical, without effect or disproportionate in the circumstances) and any other lawful methods that may be appropriate in the circumstances.

c) Reasonable endeavours must continue to be made to resolve the problem using such appropriate lawful methods alongside use of the licence.

d) Only undertake lethal control of birds during the peak breeding season* if lethal control at other times or use of other licensed methods (e.g. egg destruction) would not provide a satisfactory solution.

e) Any person using this licence must be able to show, if asked by an officer of Natural England or the Police:

  1. (i)  what type of crop any action under this licence is protecting;

  2. (ii)  what lawful methods have been, and are being, taken to prevent serious damage to such crops by woodpigeon or why the lawful methods have not been taken;

  3. (iii)  what measures have been and are being taken to minimise losses due to other species and causes; and

  4. (iv)  why the threat of serious damage from woodpigeon is sufficiently serious to merit action under this licence.

Licence users are advised to keep a record or log of crop damage and of efforts to address problems by legal methods. 

Edited by turbo33
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4 minutes ago, Neverforget said:

 

Hi guys

There are few bright people on here, I’m not one I’ve been reading the rules on the GL and applied for this but there is a post today I’ve been reading that has me curious

Were i live there are crows and pigeons over new drillings and i have permission for this land, tried all the shoo go away and don’t come back and this isn’t working

Can someone be honest can i go out and shoot these from today fourth may 2019?

Cheers

The way i see it technically YES!. Would i go out ?  NO!  

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1 minute ago, turbo33 said:

If you can tick all these boxes, then probably. However, due to the mass media coverage, its a high possibility, that a member of the public could call the police, as they have done in the past with legitimate decoyers, and switched on policeman may check to see you've complied with all the below. The choice is yours.

a) Only as a last resort to prevent serious damage*.

*: see Definitions

8. When this licence can be used

b) Before using the licence reasonable endeavours must have been made to resolve the problem using the lawful methods identified in Table 1 (unless their use would be impractical, without effect or disproportionate in the circumstances) and any other lawful methods that may be appropriate in the circumstances.

c) Reasonable endeavours must continue to be made to resolve the problem using such appropriate lawful methods alongside use of the licence.

d) Only undertake lethal control of birds during the peak breeding season* if lethal control at other times or use of other licensed methods (e.g. egg destruction) would not provide a satisfactory solution.

e) Any person using this licence must be able to show, if asked by an officer of Natural England or the Police:

  1. (i)  what type of crop any action under this licence is protecting;

  2. (ii)  what lawful methods have been, and are being, taken to prevent serious damage to such crops by woodpigeon or why the lawful methods have not been taken;

  3. (iii)  what measures have been and are being taken to minimise losses due to other species and causes; and

  4. (iv)  why the threat of serious damage from woodpigeon is sufficiently serious to merit action under this licence.

Licence users are advised to keep a record or log of crop damage and of efforts to address problems by legal methods. 

Good answer.

Just now, TIGHTCHOKE said:

But they are bloody difficult to get!

Are they?  Interested to know any input here, was talking about this with a mate other day he said they were good to eat. ? .

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