Make your views known to Defra

[Mightymariner]

Here is a link to a consultation on the way the GL issue has been handled and going forward......It closes on May 13. I would suggest it is important you make your views known and share this widely if you can:

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/use-of-general-licences-for-the-management-of-certain-wild-birds-a-call-for-evidence/detail-of-call-for-evidence

[JDog]

Where did you find that little gem?

 

[turbo33]

Great find/post MM!!

Gove is in a flat spin, and rightly so!! So lets get on it, its a one shot deal, and more important than the Saturday night indian takeaway!!!!

Edited May 4, 2019 by turbo33

[Mightymariner]

I signed up for email alerts from Defra/NE last week.

[marsh man]

Now the G L is in the hands of the Secretary of State and they need clarify what is on N Es G L, is the latest one void, or can we go if we comply with it ?, this is getting a bit confusing 

[muncher]

Well I've sent a reply, probably not the most eloquent,but I hope numbers will count in our favour.

[lakeside1000]

I think the BASC will be speaking on most of our behalf, Gove's intention is to gather as much as possible in a very short time, so it may be counter productive if individuals block the internet with many hundreds of individual emails, far better to have the bodies we pay fees to , represent us which is what we pay our dues for, the BASC has been at the forefront of these complaints and negotiations so far and I believe they represent our best chance of a fast and correct conclusion. If you are not a member of one of the representative groups already in negotiation then by all means get your message in a s a p, we can only hope that  new GL's appear very soon and end this farce. 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

1 minute ago, lakeside1000 said:

I think the BASC will be speaking on most of our behalf, Gove's intention is to gather as much as possible in a very short time, so it may be counter productive if individuals block the internet with many hundreds of individual emails, far better to have the bodies we pay fees to , represent us which is what we pay our dues for, the BASC has been at the forefront of these complaints and negotiations so far and I believe they represent our best chance of a fast and correct conclusion. If you are not a member of one of the representative groups already in negotiation then by all means get your message in a s a p, we can only hope that  new GL's appear very soon and end this farce. 

WOW!

Everyone should send in their feelings, otherwise they will never know how many of us feel let down!

[NatureBoy]

Same here! It all counts! If there peps  looked at these threads they would learn alot!  It's certainly got us lot talking and motivated!  NB

[lancer425]

1 minute ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

WOW!

Everyone should send in their feelings, otherwise they will never know how many of us feel let down!

+1 This above.

Those that have replied already could if they think of anything in the meantime could send in an addendum, more evidence we present as to be good. 

Mighty ruler well done on presenting the guidance notes at top of page .

[lakeside1000]

8 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

WOW!

Everyone should send in their feelings, otherwise they will never know how many of us feel let down!

If you are sifting emails looking for genuine evidence of the need for pest control, how many people will it take and how long will it take to read several thousand emails, the government department looking into this will view this as a pain in the butt to have to pull staff away from other work to sort out this mess caused by NE, the actual evidence and fact will be 'watered down' by the excessive numbers of emails, yes we could all send in our thoughts and if we had any, actual evidence, but the groups who represent us can do a much better job , and they will ask us, the members if they need any specifics, 

Edited May 4, 2019 by lakeside1000

[TIGHTCHOKE]

1 minute ago, lakeside1000 said:

If you are sifting emails looking for genuine evidence of the need for pest control, how many people will it take and how long will it take to read several thousand emails, the government department looking into this will view this as a pain in the butt to have to pull staff away from other work to sort out this mess caused by NE, the actual evidence and fact will be 'watered down' by the excessive numbers of emails, yes we could all send in our thoughts and if we had any, actual evidence, but the groups who represent us can do a much better job , and they will ask us, the members if they need any specifics, 

And if we don't they will just feel we accept it!

[lakeside1000]

Non of us are accepting 'it', we are being represented by the most powerful shooting and conservation groups in the country who we pay fees to for just this purpose, I don't keep a dog and bark myself, read the letter put forward to the NE prior to this handover by the BASC, which will go forward as evidence and proof of feelings amongst members, this letter is full of specific facts and figure and spells out exactly all our thoughts, unless you have actual specific proof which would help in Mr Gove and his associates coming to the right conclusion and issuing new GL's , If you can furnish photographic or written evidence of pest damage and the need to control then by all means email them now, 

[TIGHTCHOKE]

And you are well aware of the previous poor responses, we all need to make our feelings known!

[Timerider]

10 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

And if we don't they will just feel we accept it!

I definitely agree they need to know peoples opinions, and how many of us there are affected by this whole farce, and if individuals want to reply that`s excellent. But I also agree that the organisations we belong to will be replying on our behalf. BASC will be sending an E-mail (presumably more eloquent than one I could write) and will effectively be from more than 150000 people. I would also presume the other big organizations will be doing the same thing on behalf of their members.

I`d also like to say  well done to Mightymariner for for the heads up on this

[bostonmick]

Yes everyone should write in. But one thing for sure now the politicians have got hold of this it is not going to end in a good or simple way

[old'un]

1 hour ago, lakeside1000 said:

I think the BASC will be speaking on most of our behalf, Gove's intention is to gather as much as possible in a very short time, so it may be counter productive if individuals block the internet with many hundreds of individual emails, far better to have the bodies we pay fees to , represent us which is what we pay our dues for, the BASC has been at the forefront of these complaints and negotiations so far and I believe they represent our best chance of a fast and correct conclusion. If you are not a member of one of the representative groups already in negotiation then by all means get your message in a s a p, we can only hope that  new GL's appear very soon and end this farce. 

And I guess Packham’s followers will feel the same and not bother, I think not, they need to know the strength of feeling out there.

[lancer425]

1 hour ago, lakeside1000 said:

Non of us are accepting 'it', we are being represented by the most powerful shooting and conservation groups in the country who we pay fees to for just this purpose, I don't keep a dog and bark myself, read the letter put forward to the NE prior to this handover by the BASC, which will go forward as evidence and proof of feelings amongst members, this letter is full of specific facts and figure and spells out exactly all our thoughts, unless you have actual specific proof which would help in Mr Gove and his associates coming to the right conclusion and issuing new GL's , If you can furnish photographic or written evidence of pest damage and the need to control then by all means email them now, 

The way to respond to defra at the top of this page is clear and precise, and the defined criteria is achievable by most  shooters .

  And whilst i am sure the majority here are 100%  with you that BASc is the best option we have, equally our contributions if it falls in line with what the Defra requirements  can only add to the cause not detract from it.

[Yer man]

2 hours ago, lakeside1000 said:

If you are sifting emails looking for genuine evidence of the need for pest control, how many people will it take and how long will it take to read several thousand emails, the government department looking into this will view this as a pain in the butt to have to pull staff away from other work to sort out this mess caused by NE, the actual evidence and fact will be 'watered down' by the excessive numbers of emails, yes we could all send in our thoughts and if we had any, actual evidence, but the groups who represent us can do a much better job , and they will ask us, the members if they need any specifics, 

Like a lot of public consultations (I have personal experience mostly of plannning enquiries and consultations), it's not that they read every detail of every email, it's more that they categorise you as one side or t'other and use the volume of responses to judge the mood and the seriousness of the reaction. They will know that BASC, NGO, CLA and the like will have the most detailed and reasoned evidence and will give it the appropriate weight, but it's still important to make your views known.

Not least because WJ and friends will be writing in too.............

[lancer425]

8 minutes ago, Yer man said:

Like a lot of public consultations (I have personal experience mostly of plannning enquiries and consultations), it's not that they read every detail of every email, it's more that they categorise you as one side or t'other and use the volume of responses to judge the mood and the seriousness of the reaction. They will know that BASC, NGO, CLA and the like will have the most detailed and reasoned evidence and will give it the appropriate weight, but it's still important to make your views known.

Not least because WJ and friends will be writing in too.............

 Yerman i am not used to consultations and such sort in any way so excuse my nativity, but when they draw conclusions is it on a proportional basis. ?

Like by way of illustration if you had say  Against  78% of 14000  10 920 in one camp but in the other camp for..you had but  63% of 22700 at 14 301 would the against s win? 

Because i am sure WJ will out strip us on numbers easily .

[Yer man]

22 minutes ago, lancer425 said:

 Yerman i am not used to consultations and such sort in any way so excuse my nativity, but when they draw conclusions is it on a proportional basis. ?

Like by way of illustration if you had say  Against  78% of 14000  10 920 in one camp but in the other camp for..you had but  63% of 22700 at 14 301 would the against s win? 

Because i am sure WJ will out strip us on numbers easily .

Fair point, well made: it's not about absolute numbers ie a vote, but it points to the strength of feeling for and against (and they will/should take proportions into account where they can). And in an ideal world, which it isn't, they would apply different weights to responses according to eg the specific impact on the individuals responding, whether they're writing an individual email or simply a cut and paste petition letter etc. 

My point was that individual emails don't water down the representations by umbrella organisations, quite the reverse, they provide extra support and ballast. So we should all write in.

[lancer425]

43 minutes ago, Yer man said:

Fair point, well made: it's not about absolute numbers ie a vote, but it points to the strength of feeling for and against (and they will/should take proportions into account where they can). And in an ideal world, which it isn't, they would apply different weights to responses according to eg the specific impact on the individuals responding, whether they're writing an individual email or simply a cut and paste petition letter etc. 

My point was that individual emails don't water down the representations by umbrella organisations, quite the reverse, they provide extra support and ballast. So we should all write in.

Thanks for that.

[The gouse]

 In content 5 reply on behalf of an organisation.

can we not Express all bullet points with one reply from PW members.

This would show professionalism and the backing that comes from pigeon watch members. This would stand out then and would be more likely to be read in depth than loads of individual emails. 

[old man]

Message sent.

[lancer425]

4 hours ago, The gouse said:

 In content 5 reply on behalf of an organisation.

can we not Express all bullet points with one reply from PW members.

This would show professionalism and the backing that comes from pigeon watch members. This would stand out then and would be more likely to be read in depth than loads of individual emails. 

It is a fair point how many members are on PW?

 I dont supose it could do any harm but would want drafting well. And having it here on an open forum like this is not so good, taking it to PMs might be the best option, i think we need to kick this about a little more perhaps first.  Any other thoughts on this.?