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On 09/05/2019 at 18:18, jason g said:

Since the ban magpies, crows and bloody pigeons descend on my garden and the birds in the hedge have gone down in numbers

I, for one, find this highly suspect that you would notice an effect in such a short space of time. Please publish your data.

The GL had long been misinterpreted. I remember as a youth knowing the 13 "unlucky" species you could shoot, as listed by the popular air gun magazines. It was never clarified that it wasn't a blanket excuse to shoot on sight. Until this issue was brought to the fore by recent events, I'd wager that many of us were not complying with the GL anyway.

Much as the sight of a magpie targeting songbirds is abhorrent to our eyes, is this not something they've done for hundreds of thousands of years? Nature red in tooth and claw? The actions of the cuckoo are pretty despicable but I'd hope nobody is advocating shooting them.

 

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My lifetime is over 40 years. The GL ban is a matter of weeks old. Was the corvid shooting local to Jason that effective prior to the ban? We are not going to fight this with anecdote and conjecture. We need evidence that is properly supported with statistical data.

These BTO statistics you mention may provide some proof for our cause but I very much doubt they'd show an effect that quickly. Happy to be proven wrong, with emphasis on the proven.

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12 minutes ago, spandit said:

I, for one, find this highly suspect that you would notice an effect in such a short space of time. Please publish your data.

 

Not being trapping for the last few weeks im definitely seeing more magpies freely causing chaos than I normally would at this time of year so I'd argue that there definitely has been an impact over the last few weeks. 

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Argue all you like but unless you can provide documented proof showing numbers compared to previous years your arguments are baseless.

I'm sorry if I'm coming across as an anti - perhaps I am playing Devil's advocate - but there are intelligent minds on NJ's side and it will take more than a comment on here to persuade them and the general public that there is a case for killing birds.

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4 minutes ago, spandit said:

Argue all you like but unless you can provide documented proof showing numbers compared to previous years your arguments are baseless.

I'm sorry if I'm coming across as an anti - perhaps I am playing Devil's advocate - but there are intelligent minds on NJ's side and it will take more than a comment on here to persuade them and the general public that there is a case for killing birds.

Im not saying im taking this into any kind of legal battle, im purely stating that I have seen an increase in numbers in the area, normally these would be in the trap not in the hedges. I dont need a flip chart, pie chart or any other graph to see the difference. I use my eyes. 

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I don't doubt your conviction but we are discussing a legal situation here and "I use my eyes" is not going to cut it. Maybe due to your trapping over previous years the numbers have been artificially low compared to a sustainable balanced population?

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Spandit, you may be discussing a legal argument, but the op was commenting on an observation. The national population levels of corvids has increased massively - fact. A local reduction in numbers is just that - nature abhors a vacuum. We need a national effort to reduce numbers to pre 1970 levels, until that happens you can only act within your own sphere of influence.

 

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Excellent. I'm trying to be impartial here and I will agree that since 1970, magpie numbers have gone up (by 100% I think). Over nearly 50 years. Not over 3 weeks. Gathering data takes time and we may have to be diligent and patient because the likes of CP and NJ are well funded and persuasive. If a decline in songbirds, for example, is measured without emotion or hyperbole and proven to be due to increased predation by corvids then it will be necessary to control them by legal means

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Unfortunately gone are the days when you relied on your eyes to tell you the damage certain birds do to crops and wildlife, if it hasn’t got a study or some scientific paper to back it up, then according to the likes of Avery and Packham you have no argument to kill any bird , you now need to-be waving a bit of paper above your head when you are trying to put your argument across.

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I think we are in agreement here to some extent. One needs cold hard proof showing correlations between corvid numbers and songbird populations over an extended period. I, for one, don't like the noise they make (magpies) and there are many around where I live but I haven't monitored what effect they have on other wildlife.

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I know its perhaps an hot potato but if I remember some years ago there was some sort of garden watch done for the number of song birds and predation, two of the top reported predators by people taking part, were cats and sparrow hawks, make of it what you will as there’s no scientific paper to back this unfortunately just estimated numbers.

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1 minute ago, old'un said:

I know its perhaps an hot potato but if I remember some years ago there was some sort of garden watch done for the number of song birds and predation, two of the top reported predators by people taking part, were cats and sparrow hawks, make of it what you will as there’s no scientific paper to back this unfortunately just estimated numbers.

The RSPB conduct Garden Watch annually figures must be available. Will have a look later......

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3 minutes ago, spandit said:

where I live but I haven't monitored what effect they have on other wildlife.

Neither have i but its not a moot point Magpies kill birds raid nests, NE agree and why ON SSSI we shoot we got them down on the consent GL or not.

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9 minutes ago, TIGHTCHOKE said:

You could mention you like Song Birds and are worried about the rise of Magpies and other Corvids!

Think you have missed a few birds of your list but like I said earlier it’s a bit of an hot potato and a topic some people think should not talk about on a shooting forum.

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On 09/05/2019 at 12:04, JJsDad said:

In a word yes. But we could still be waiting for the general licence covering magpies for some time. I would shoot to scare them off and then say, "Oooops, sight must have taken a knock" !

Just happens they must have had a knock tried a warning shot 

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