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Oh no! ATA Supersport


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52 minutes ago, Rewulf said:

Ripping off is a bit strong, I suppose if an ATA does the same job, fits and shoots as well, and gives the same amount of service time as a Silver pigeon costing 3 times as much, then all it comes down to is the name, and re sale value. 

We can assume quality and workmanship are 'as good' 

It's like driving to your destination in a  Dacia or a Range Rover, they both get you there, will likely last as long, but one costs many times less than the other, and is more reliable 🤣

Exactly. 

With a range rover you can see what your paying for and getting. More kit better leather etc. Yes they both get you there but completely different class and materials. Where as shotguns are two tubes a trigger with Sears and hammers and lump.if wood. Not exactly much different for hundreds of years.

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1 hour ago, figgy said:

With a range rover you can see what your paying for and getting. More kit better leather etc. Yes they both get you there but completely different class and materials. Where as shotguns are two tubes a trigger with Sears and hammers and lump.if wood. Not exactly much different for hundreds of years.

I was joking about the RR analogy, but you get the gist with the guns?

Having the name Berreta on it makes it more expensive. Think of it this way, if they were both exactly the same gun ,made in the same factory,  but one said ATA and one said Beretta, and were the same money, which would you buy ?

ATA even tried branding the earlier ones as Weatherby, a defunct off the shelf name , but no one was interested.

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Ginger cat that's true to a point, design tolerances and materials are where they differ.

Would be good to know the grade and hardness of the steel used in guns.  Berettas steelium barrel steel someone on here years ago said the same same steel was in his work place. General grade of steel.are the lesser brand guns made of softer steel or harder etc. 

The name on the gun matters not to me.

Edited by figgy
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1 hour ago, figgy said:

Ginger cat that's true to a point, design tolerances and materials are where they differ.

Would be good to know the grade and hardness of the steel used in guns.  Berettas steelium barrel steel someone on here years ago said the same same steel was in his work place. General grade of steel.are the lesser brand guns made of softer steel or harder etc. 

The name on the gun matters not to me.

Just for the record, "Steelium" is Beretta's newish buzzword for the process of cold hammer forging. The material is the same old Excelsior HSA steel they've used for yonks.

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Think what you have to consider is not what is in a gun such as ATA, but try and justify what is in a gun costing a multiple of several times more to justify the price.

At the shooting show this weekend saw some lovely guns but for the price you could buy a small family car ! Look what goes into a car compared to a  gun. As long as gunmakers can greatly inflate their price and get away with it they will.

 

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6 hours ago, figgy said:

Westward you are correct. It's the code for the steel I can't remember something like fw3 

Gunmakers are as good as facecream and yoghurt makers for making up names.

I've no idea what the steel industry code is for the Excelsior steel but it's used on all the Beretta factory shotguns. They use the really fancy Boehler Antinit on the posh custom shop guns. I doubt if those guns have forged barrels, they likely have bored barrels like proper guns.

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12 hours ago, GingerCat said:

My understanding is that ata made barrels for Beretta so they should be ok, don't know about the actions. 

I have heard conflicting views on this, and when I visited the Beretta store in London (which is amazing by the way!) the gunroom manager categorically denied that any Beretta barrels have ever been made by any Turkish manufacturer.  I have had a good think about purchasing this ATA SuperSport and whilst I think its a great gun for the money the only way I can do it is to part with something from my collection to free up cabinet space.  My main gun is still my Perazzi MT6 and I really dont think that would be a sensible gun to chop in for the ATA and the others are all in regular use...

But then again given some of the great reviews, perhaps the ATA could be a viable main clay gun?

Edited by Wingman
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  • 1 year later...

The beretta connection is beretta owns stoegor, who ata makes barrels for, and if you do your homework stoegors have had many many issues with barrels and monoblocks etc, ata are good for the money, but put one on a table and compare it piece by piece to a new or old miroku, beretta, browning, winchester etc and there is a huge gap, the materials, tooling, qualitu control, coatings and overall geometry is nowhere near as good, yes good for the money but people need to accept they are made to a very low budget, good backup gun or casual/beginner gun, but i always say buy used quality over new cheap

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When I bought my first shotgun I fell in love with an unknown brand at the time. A couple of gun shops tried to put me off saying its a cheap knock off, the quality isn't up to scratch, the barrels will explode but I ignored them and bought the Caesur Guerini Maxum anyway. What a difference a few years makes. 

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7 hours ago, Ausgunner said:

The beretta connection is beretta owns stoegor, who ata makes barrels for, and if you do your homework stoegors have had many many issues with barrels and monoblocks etc, ata are good for the money, but put one on a table and compare it piece by piece to a new or old miroku, beretta, browning, winchester etc and there is a huge gap, the materials, tooling, qualitu control, coatings and overall geometry is nowhere near as good, yes good for the money but people need to accept they are made to a very low budget, good backup gun or casual/beginner gun, but i always say buy used quality over new cheap

Not sure about that, my wife’s has had about 3k through it now and has performed flawlessly, so the material and manufacturing must be good, I suspect QC has had some problems. The wood on hers (and many others) makes my MK70 and Mk38 look like a fence post. I have previous stated that the ones I picked up had issues and were returned (but the damage could have been done in proof) but then again my MK70 has also had problems from new.  A couple of pals now have Supersports and they love them and I’m seriously considering another. COVID has shown me that I have 4K worth of guns just gathering dust, and if anyone thinks it’s going away then they need to rethink that. I don’t mind having £800 gathering dust. 
Only time will tell if they have longevity, but it would seem that they are proving reliable so far. IMO they are a good cut above Koffs, marginally better than Yildiz (but not on the small gauges)

Clay shooting is expensive and I’m all for getting more people into the sport, if any manufacturers can produce a product that can get more people into the sport on a shoe string, then that gets the thumbs up from me.

Just my 10p worth👍

Edited by Taileron
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17 minutes ago, Taileron said:

Not sure about that, my wife’s has had about 3k through it now and has performed flawlessly, so the material and manufacturing must be good, I suspect QC has had some problems. The wood on hers (and many others) makes my MK70 and Mk38 look like a fence post. I have previous stated that the ones I picked up had issues and were returned (but the damage could have been done in proof) but then again my MK70 has also had problems from new.  A couple of pals now have Supersports and they love them and I’m seriously considering another. COVID has shown me that I have 4K worth of guns just gathering dust, and if anyone thinks it’s going away then they need to rethink that. I don’t mind having £800 gathering dust. 
Only time will tell if they have longevity, but it would seem that they are proving reliable so far. IMO they are a good cut above Koffs, marginally better than Yildiz (but not on the small gauges)

Clay shooting is expensive and I’m all for getting more people into the sport, if any manufacturers can produce a product that can get more people into the sport on a shoe string, then that gets the thumbs up from me.

Just my 10p worth👍

Three thousand cartridges is not very many at all!  See what you think when it has fired three hundred thousand. And I’ve said it before that the easiest way to sell most people a cheaply made gun is to put some pretty wood on it. This is somehow perceived as making the gun a quality item.

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32 minutes ago, London Best said:

Three thousand cartridges is not very many at all!  See what you think when it has fired three hundred thousand. And I’ve said it before that the easiest way to sell most people a cheaply made gun is to put some pretty wood on it. This is somehow perceived as making the gun a quality item.

Exactly...making a stock look nice is cheap. Forging the action like in a beretta isn’t cheap.

ATA are a lot of gun for the money, but I’d wager the 20 year old beretta I bought instead of an ATA after handling both side by side will outlast anything Turkish. 

Edited by oscarsdad
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1 hour ago, Taileron said:

Clay shooting is expensive and I’m all for getting more people into the sport,

Indeedy.

The "should of brought a Beretta (sic)" crowd seem to forget the £300-odd difference between a new ATA and secondhand silver pig/miroku will buy a lot of carts/clays.

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58 minutes ago, London Best said:

See what you think when it has fired three hundred thousand.

Firstly if you're that into shooting that you've put 300k shots through it, you're unlikely to still be on an ATA.

Secondly, you will have had it serviced and addressed on-going maintenance issues.

Third, there's a case to be made that if it's still going after 300k with no issues, it's over-designed, and therefore will have cost too much.

fourth, you can't stand O/Us anyway?

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13 minutes ago, udderlyoffroad said:

Firstly if you're that into shooting that you've put 300k shots through it, you're unlikely to still be on an ATA.

Secondly, you will have had it serviced and addressed on-going maintenance issues.

Third, there's a case to be made that if it's still going after 300k with no issues, it's over-designed, and therefore will have cost too much.

fourth, you can't stand O/Us anyway?

Firstly, if you had bought, say, a Browning, (insert any quality make), there is no reason you would not have the same gun after that number of shots.

Secondly, fair point, but you would not / cannot service scrap.

Thirdly, calling BS on this one. It just means it was designed / built properly.

Fourth, what connection has that with this thread.

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2 hours ago, London Best said:

Three thousand cartridges is not very many at all!  See what you think when it has fired three hundred thousand. And I’ve said it before that the easiest way to sell most people a cheaply made gun is to put some pretty wood on it. This is somehow perceived as making the gun a quality item.

300k carts, you must be very well off indeed.

That’s 1200 slabs

I pay £56 per slab

£67,200 in carts.

This is my point in a nutshell, clay shooting is expensive. I personally can’t afford £67,200 on my hobby, but if I could then I wouldn’t be using an £800 gun. I wonder if ATA put the same fence post wood onto their guns that all the “top” makes do on their entry level guns what people would find to criticise?

 

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